Shelby and SAAC at Odds

Just another thought is SAI doing anything about the Shelby Dodge Auto Club is there license being renewed?

 

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to take away any recognition whatsoever for the hard work that SAAC has done to preserve the history of our favorite automobile. However, SAAC leadership no longer qualify as volunteers. They do deserve compensation for their efforts. How much is open to debate, only the marketplace can determine that. As long as they are doing a good job in the eyes of their customers, they will continue to be in business. The registrars and reps on the other hand receive no compensation for their work. My understanding is that they have to meet their own expenses. They recover some of the money they put out from their own pocket by charging for copies of original factory paperwork they have in their possession. They do it for the love of the marque and should be supported in this.

 

Well, if you would think about it: according to some people on here, there are well over 5000 Members of SAAC that they have to keep up with, and they have to keep up with and maintain the Paper Work and Information on everyones Car PLUS work on the Shelby Registry. They put together the Snake Bite and put out a yearly Magazine, put together the SAAC Shows PLUS a whole lot more. If they also hold down a Full Time Job, they are miricle workers to boot.

 

They deserve at least some wage to do what they do....most of those guys devoted their lives to this stuff.
Futhermore, i dont think they take home very large wages.
Best Regards,
Vern

 

Let me start off by saying that I just mailed in my SAAC renewal form and fee for the upcoming year. I have been a member of SAAC for a number of years because I liked being a part of the the sanctioned body but that does not mean that I am pleased with them. I do think and hope they will continue to have their place in the "Shelby" world but to do so they need to review what they are doing and make some much needed changes.

I have had a handful of Shelbys in my life and dealt with SAAC on a couple of them and had one good experience and one really bad experience. The 67-68 registrar was excellent to work with while the 69-70 registrar, well lets just say it was a memorable experience. He had never laid eyes on my car or it's documentation but yet he seemed to take great pride in letting me know that he knew more than me about it. He contested what I had original documentation to prove. In the end, I just quit communicating with him and vowed never to play in his sandlot again.

Furthermore, SAAC wanted all of my paperwork at no cost to them but they wanted me to pay them for their paperwork. I did it one time but never again. The Shelby that I now own will never be updated with SAAC and that is the way I like it. I don't need at least one guy jacked up on testosterone to tell me what my car is and is not.

To look at SAAC from another angle, I just joined the Fairlane club for $35 and have already received a very nice magazine that comes out more than once a year and they have a nice website as well. Where does all of SAAC's proceeds go? Definitely not to periodicals and technology.

Again, I hope that SAAC survives but they need to change some of their philosophys and learn to treat their paying members a little better. I know I am not one of the ones stationed on the Mother Ship but I do pay my dues and I do own a Shelby and I would hope they would treat us lowly no-name members a little better.

Oh well, if nothing else, I feel better but man are my fingers tired!

 

Ditto to Blazinsaddles! I too am a SAAC member at 40.00/year. If they have 5000 members, that equates to 200,000 dollars/ year just in membership fees. What do I get?, very little. a Snakebite and maybe a Shelby American magazine. You pay dearly for anything you get from SAAC or participate in.
WHY did CS pull SAAC licensing? WHY does CS want his original paper work back?
First of all, when Rick Kopec and his Associates received all the original paperwork, literature, cancelled SA checks, etc., It should have been all archived. Needless to say it has "NOT BEEN" Well, Rick and his assoc started selling it on E-bay. As most of you probably seen the checks alone were bringing very good MONEY. Who's pocket did this go into? E-bay name JOLLYROGE was a big seller of the checks.
Secondly: SAAC hosed CS, he doesn't like it one bit, he trusted them with the original lit etc. and look what they have done. I would say pulling the CS lic.is appropiate
Lastly: Due to the Litigation involved, they are choosing to remain mum on the topic until. YOUR TYPICAL COP-OUT
Come on SAAC lets step up to the plate and tell all the truth.

 

Another member chimes in:
I've been a SAAC member since the middle 80's. Although the name has "Club" in it, funny how I don't recall any elections. AND, I DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
The base guys put it all together, and, if they managed a way to figure out how to get a pay check out of it, more power to them. Nobody would have done a equal to or better job of it. I'm a satisfied customer.

Snakebite Bulletins: same folks aways selling the same stuff with some new additions. And it keeps the members updated.
The Shelby American magazine, which used to come, what, every 90 days, is "maybe" a yearly. Must be a lot less to say. Besides, in the last 7-8 years, it's all about C/s and less about the cars.

Selling stuff that CS gave-loaned-borrowed to them, if that is true, well oops to them. Don't forget, CS has always been about his money. And, I don't have a problem with that.

 

I am pretty sure E-bays "JOLLYROGE" is Curt Vogt of Cobra Automotive and he has admitted on this forum that he has sold things on e-bay recieved from Rick.

 

Some seem to assume that Carroll loaned all the stuff to Kopec but isn't there also the belief that it was given to him ? If someone gave me all that stuff I probably would have sold the non record type of stuff years ago. We need to save his old checks why ?

 

In reference to whether the documents were "given or loaned":

This is a direct quote from page 11 of the 1997 Shelby American World Registry

"....Carroll Shelby was extremely generous in allowing the club not only full access to his records, but Kopec was allowed to take anything he felt was of interest. In return, Kopec promised to take care of it and return it to Shelby whenever he requested it ... as long as there was time to make photo copies of it before turning it over. Eventually Kopec would ship over a thousand pounds of documents and records back to club headquarters in Connecticut......"

The above quote (from SAAC's own registry) makes it very clear that all the documents were on loan, to be returned upon request. period.

The sale of anything, checks or whatever, looks wrong to me.

Z. Ray

 

My take on the situation is this: Carroll Shelby is the oldest living person to survive a DOUBLE Transplant. He is a Legend who has created some cool cars. Carroll Shelby is ALSO a Businessman and always has been. As much as it pains me to say this, (but I have to for this), he is not going to live forever, he knows that. From everything that I have seen or read, about what has been happening over the past few years, Carroll Shelby is preparing for the future. He is growing his empire for the future BUT is also wanting to consolidate his holdings (so to speak) to make it easier for the next generation Shelby to take the reigns. He is trying to make the CSCF self sufficient, he is limiting how many License’s are issued, he is retrieving all that is his to be accounted for and documented and he is surrounding himself with people who will lookout for the best interest of his Company, Amy Boylan, Gary Patterson, Ford Motor Company and yes Barrett-Jackson and there are others (I would even bet a few SAAC Board Members).
I have asked this question before and no one has answered it yet….. Does SAAC really need to be Licensed now to survive and grow? I don’t think so. As many loyal Members as there are, it will take a heck of a lot more then losing the Licensing to bring it down. How many people have joined SAAC because of YOU. I know several people have joined because of ME, and being Licensed by Carroll Shelby Licensing had nothing to do with it. SAAC is a great Club with a wealth of information. That information will not vanish because the Licensing has ended or the Papers were returned. When the clock strikes Midnight, SAAC will not turn into a Pumpkin. I truly believe that it could very well be possible that SAAC will consider merging with Team Shelby in the near future.

 

From what I've heard Shelby bailed on SDAC years ago.

 

Guys like any relationship, there are bumps and hills. When two entities care enough or really want something to work out, you go the extra mile to do so. As you can see by the posts above, there are issues, deep issues , hurt feeling, sold goods, etc.

I do think SAAC is bigger then it's owners that the registrar's have done an amazing job. I think Team Shelby will do well also. Sometimes you just have to move on. We as Shelby will always support the members and any regional group that wants us. This is supposed to be fun. Life is too short to argue, accuse, threaten, etc.,....


Enjoy your cars, life is short.


Amy

 

SAAC Rescued the factory documents back in the 1980’s. If they had not they would have wound up in the wrong hands. Carroll was giving his stuff away and was asking former Shelby American employees to do the same to who ever came along with a story about a museum. Especially one individual from Texas.
This was all trash to Shelby and it was about to be discarded in one way or another.
These documents were permanently given to SAAC and know one from the current Shelby Automobile Company has asked for them back so let’s put an end to that rumor.
The documents were distributed among the appropriate registrars and this helped build the data base that generates the registry.
None of these documents have been sold , traded or released into any ones hands other than appropriate SAAC officers.
This is why Shelby American Automobiles have held a higher and more stable value than most other Marques.
In with this pile of documentation were several other items including some old canceled checks.
There were so many of them that they were given away for gifts, donations , door prizes and other novel ideas.
A large amount were given back to Carroll Shelby and some have shown up privately for sale on eBay
Despite what every thinks SAAC is not a very profitable situation.
Many people such as my self and even the very officers donate thousands of personal dollars every year to keep SAAC going.
It has gotten so expensive to rent a facility to hold a convention that the club barely breaks even at these events now so there are no HUGE WAGES for SAAC officers.
SAAC has faithfully supported Carroll Shelby for almost 33 years now and this license issue is something Carroll has brought on all by himself.
What I have printed here is fact not rumors or hearsay.
Throughout these last few weeks SAAC has been quite but not asleep they will be making an official statement in the next few days.

 

Adding to my earlier post...

Again, I hope and think that SAAC can survive but they may have to begin thinking outside of the box a little to do that. SAAC is indeed a club and it exists soley by the involvement (paying of dues and participating in events) of all of it's members. I simply think though that SAAC has become and may have always been somewhat self-serving and we nameless and faceless members simply helped the elite group (upper echelon) see their own goals and ambitions met. I have already said that I will never provide them with information on my car and I know of another gentleman that was a long time paying member until around 10 years ago when the Mother Ship folks teed him off with some of their "no one knows more than me" attitude and he refuses to update them on the 67 GT350, 70 GT500 and 70 GT350 convertble that he owns. I know that he and I only represent 4 cars but how many other folks are doing the same? If this trend continues, SAAC ends up losing one of it's greatest assests, the ownership trail and current status of many of these neat cars. People then may begin questioning why even join if their information is not up to date and comprehensive like it once was.

I recognize this is sour grapes and I am sorry for that but I would like to see SAAC undergo some kind of a facelift and change their ways so that me and other alienated members and ex-members are chomping at the bit to dive back in. Heck, I am even willing to pay more to be involved in a club that I feel exists to serve both a great car and the people that own and/or appreciate them.

In closing, this is my opinion and my opinion only. I am not asking that people join or quit SAAC. I am confident that the organization has helped many, many folks out over the years and I want to see that continue. They have been a vital part of keeping the Shelby name alive through the years but now there is another horse in the corral and they need to learn what it will take to co-exist with it.

 

I am sorry that some people can only extract (self serving) out of years of hard work and there is no elite group or high echelon.
SAAC has really had no competition therefore people do not know how it could possibly be to belong to another club.
It may be a wise decision to try a membership with Team Shelby and let's see if after 32 years they are still around.
SAAC has already co-existed for many years and will continue to do so.

 

Why dont we all just hold our tongues until both sides have made formal statements on the matter at hand.
There is no reason for speculation.
Lets just get the facts before making any judgements or starting any rumors.
Best Regards,
Vern

 

Response to Jollyroge

I apologize for using the term self-serving but lets face it, all organizations have upper echelons (we here in the south call them cliques) and they tend to be the driving force behind an organization. The individuals that make these up are the ones that typically keep the masses moving in some direction.

That in it's self is not a bad thing but the membership cannot be forgotten. I will restate that I want SAAC to survive and I know they will but they will simply need to figure out how to co-exist with a new club present. Furthermore, while I do not agree with some of what they do, I continue to pay my dues and support the club by purchasing the Registry and such because there are other redeeming reasons for being a member. Just like there is no perfect person, there is no perfect club and in this case, the good far outweighs the negatives that I have mentioned.

I have no dog in this fight (no offense Mr. Vick) and I have no opinion on what others are accusing CS or SAAC of doing. All I would like to see come from this is a stronger and more cohesive group of enthusiasts that enjoy being involved with one of the coolest and most eye-catching line of muscle cars ever conceived here in the states. Heck, that statement can probably be broadened without much contest to include all the other car manufacturing countries in the world.

 

Since this post has rightfully rolled over from the "Shelby News out of SEMA", I would like to mention a couple of things. Dalton's post #138 pretty well sums up my view. I would point out however that Shelby American did NOT cease to exist in 1970. It may have moved into the file bins in Gardena but it had moved from all over L.A. and to Detroit in the 1960's. Shelby American continued with "continuation" convertible GT350 Mustangs out of Beverly Hills in the 1980's , then became a new factory in Las Vegas in the early 1990's building "unfinished" chassis 427 Cobras, then the Series 1 and various Cobras: Series 3000, 4000, 7000, 8000 cars. It had an MSO in Nevada for the cars. This all ended in 2003 or 2004 with the culmination of the Ventures /Series 1 lawsuits and now we have the new improved Shelby Autos, Inc. I have seen cars that came out of the Vegas factory in the 1990's and early 2000's with Shelby American on the vin tag.

Also we have also had other Shelby clubs besides SAAC like the Shelby Owners Club SOA. All the clubs are fun and I look forward to seeing old friends and meeting new ones.

Don
66 GT350 with Paxton
23 year SAAC member and future Team Shelby member

 

Team Shelby: Some thoughts from a long time enthusiast and SAAC member

I heard about Team Shelby on November 2nd while attending the SEMA show in Las Vegas; in fact, Shelby had a booth there promoting the new club. I got some material and signed up for membership information. I was also among the first to join SAAC, and have continuously maintained my membership since 1975.

Shelby's decision to form a new club is, in my view, a business decision. He remains active in the car business and wants to promote his current product. I do not believe it to be the result of any "fallout" or ill will toward SAAC or any of its practices.

I discern from from the Team Shelby announcements and material that this organization will indeed principally support the newer cars. One look at the backgrounds of those selected to run it makes this obvious. Being primarily affectionate toward the original cars does not endear SAAC to those involved in the effort to sell current edition cars, parts and services. It would appear that we may have outlived our usefulness.

While every owner of a '60's vintage Cobra and Shelby Mustang should be eternally thankful to SAAC for preserving their car's legacy and integrity (thereby enhancing its value) through the registry and other efforts, the world moves on. There is now a large enough crop of newbies to support a group primarily aligned to the late model cars (Or so they hope - remember the Shelby Dodge Automobile Club?). Only time will tell if the fires of enthusiasm will burn long and steadily enough to carry this new group forward for over 30 years as SAAC has done.

Running a large enthusiast organization is usually a thankless task. Members frequently have their own ideas about how things should be done, and can be vocal about it. SAAC has an added dilemma in that it must also maintain cordiality with the man who started it all. The inclusion of the new cars into the forthcoming edition of the revered Shelby American World Registry was, I believe, a concession by SAAC toward Shelby's current business interests.

I agree with others on this thread that the two clubs can coexist. Frankly, I think SAAC was being stretched too far in being made to include the new cars. Let another organization handle that. Allow SAAC continued sanction for the original cars and custody of all related material. And while we're at it, let's divide registry responsibilities. Hand over the task and costs for reporting on the status of the newer vehicles to Team Shelby. In this way, each group can focus upon the cars it favors, so long as it isn't to the total exclusion of any particular Shelby automobile. Those fortunate to own both recent and original examples of the marque should certainly be able to afford two memberships.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Team Shelby's website opens on January 11, 2008 (Carroll's 85th birthday, in case the date sounds familiar). SAAC's sanction is reportedly to expire in February of 2008. ​

To quote the Yankee catcher Yogi Berra:
"It ain't over 'til it's over"