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Reproduction 1966 Disc Master Cylinder

Discussion in '1965-1970 Shelby Mustang GT350 & GT500' started by shelbyfan73, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. shelbyfan73

    shelbyfan73 Active Member

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    Hello all,

    I am needing some advice on my master cylinder. I bought a brand new reproduction disc brake master cylinder. There was a paper inside from the manufacturer. The paper said that the master was NOT to be bench bled because of the OEM designed seals. This being said, I did not bench bleed it. Now I can not get my brakes to bleed at all. If you pump the pedal 6-7 times it gets firm. If you take your foot off of it for a few seconds and push again it hits the floor. This can be repeated over and over. The vendor says the master is fine and the problem is elsewhere in the system. Per the vendor suggestion, I have adjusted the rear brake shoes up. I have removed the brake line to the Kelsey-Hayes proportioning valve and plugged the port to eliminate the proportioning valve and rear brakes as a cause. With the plug in, I bled the front calipers and no air came out. The brake pedal still does the same thing. One last thing, the brake pedal does not come full back to the stop. With the old master the pedal always came back to the stop.

    Should I pull the master off and try to bench bleed it against what the paper said? I am at my wits end here and I have to get my car on the road in the next couple weeks.

    Sorry this was so long.

    Shelbyfan73
     
  2. shelbyfan73

    shelbyfan73 Active Member

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    Well, I was hoping that somebody could give me some advice. I do appreciate all the people at least taking a look at the question though.
     
  3. s2ms

    s2ms Well-Known Member

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    Assuming you've covered all the other problem areas I don't think you have anything to lose by bench bleeding the M/C.
     
  4. zrayr

    zrayr Well-Known Member

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    if after bench bleeding you still have the ptoblem it pretty much is likely to be the m/c having an internal leak. In that case the vendor should replace it.

    Z. Ray
     
  5. shelbyfan73

    shelbyfan73 Active Member

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    Thanks guys,

    I knew somebody would have some advice for me. I am pretty sure it is a bad master already. I will still try to bench bleed it anyhow to be totally sure. I was just a little nervous to bench bleed it before I first installed it since the paper said not too.
     
  6. Texas Swede

    Texas Swede Well-Known Member

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    Just a warning, you may have a problem if you bench bleed the
    M/C and tell the supplier. He may not warrant you a replacement
    if you didn't follow the instructions.
    Texas Swede
     
  7. roddster

    roddster Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Swede about not saying anything about the bench bleeding. But, I'd love to have him argue with my old shop teacher, right up to the point where the teacher got all red faced and clintched up......
     
  8. s2ms

    s2ms Well-Known Member

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    Yep, bench bleed but don't tell.....
     
  9. shelbyfan73

    shelbyfan73 Active Member

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    Hello again,

    Well I have to admit that I have never replaced a master cylinder before. However, I have always heard you MUST bench bleed first. This is what was throwing me. The first time I called the vendor he even sounded surprised when I told him about the paper saying not to. Anyhow, I appreciate all the comments and advice. I am still hoping that is my only problem. I just can't imagine it being anything else.

    Shelbyfan73
     
  10. Texas Swede

    Texas Swede Well-Known Member

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    Well, I have replaced many master cylinders, both single and dual
    brake systems 65, 66 and 67's and never bench bleed any of them
    and always got perfect brakes with no spongy pedal.
    Texas Swede
     
  11. shelbyfan73

    shelbyfan73 Active Member

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    Hi Texas Swede,

    Did you do anything special to not have a spongy pedal? Did you just fill the master cylinder and bleed the brakes as normal?
     
  12. Texas Swede

    Texas Swede Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I just have somebody handling the brake pedal
    and I started with right rear wheel, then left rear wheel
    right front and left front. With the 67 I had to resettle
    the warning light by opening one of the bleeders and
    my helper pressing the brake pedal until the light went out
    and then I tightened the bleeder.
    Texas Swede
     
  13. gjz30075

    gjz30075 Well-Known Member

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    Same here as Tx Swede. I have replaced many master cylinders in many types of cars and have never bench bled a master and never needed to. Same procedure as Tx Swede.
     
  14. 2+2GT

    2+2GT Well-Known Member

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    I have reconditioned my original 66 disc brake master cylinder several times over the last 35 years, and I've never bench bled it. Never had a problem. I don't see how bench bleeding would be any more harmful than bleeding it in the car, though.
     
  15. Texas GT350

    Texas GT350 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your logic, I just replaced my master cylinder with a dual unit, it also said to bench bleed but not to push in more than 3/4" for some reason. I already had the unit installed when I read about the bench bleed. I called the distributor and asked if that was a problem, they said no just more air in the system that needs to be bleed out.

    I bled my brakes by myself using 1/4" ID tubing, a drinking bottle with about 1/2" of brake fluid in it. I put the tubing on the bleeder screw and the other end in the bottle making sure the end of the hose was in the brake fluid. I started with the right rear, then left rear, right front and finally left front. The brake pedal is firm and the brakes work great.
     
  16. shelbyfan73

    shelbyfan73 Active Member

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    Thank you to everyone once again for the replies. I pulled the master cylinder off the car today. When I did, once again, no fluid came out of the front port that goes to the proportioning valve. Just for grins, after I had it off, I put some fluid in it and manually pushed in on the push rod. Very little fluid came out of the front port at first. I finally was able to get a decent flow of fluid out after pushing a couple times. We will see what happens now.
     
  17. shanefoster

    shanefoster Member

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    I accept replaced abounding adept cylinders, both individual and bi fold anchor systems 65, 66 and 67's and never bank drain any of them and consistently got absolute brakes with no absorptive pedal.
     
  18. ndrewoods

    ndrewoods New Member

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    "Bench" bleeding is not necessary, although it is useful if you are working alone. Clutch masters bleed well by just cracking the bleeder on the slave and letting gravity do the work. If there is air in the master after bleeding it, you can just loosen the nut on the line on the master and squirt some brake fluid into a shop rag, then tighten it before sucking air back into the master. This is a two person job.

    Take the advice of others, don't let the supplier know that you bench bleed it.
     

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