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Ken Miles prototype 390 Cobra--GTO nostrils

Discussion in 'Shelby History and Miscellaneous Topics' started by bitzman, Sep 28, 2006.

  1. Sep 28, 2006 #1
    bitzman

    bitzman Well-Known Member

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    I recently saw a color picture of Ken Miles in a Cobra roadster, light blue, side view,very black wheels (maybe brake dust)
    very battered car with the three Ferrari GTO like nostril air intakes in the hood. The number in the roundel was 1.
    I think it is the '64 Sebring car, the one where he smashed it up by hitting a tree and then stayed up all night unbending it.
    I thought he then assigned it to John Morton to drive in the race but am puzzled when this shot was taken--I thought he was too bushed from working all night unwrinkling it to actually drive it. Maybe he took it for some practice laps when it was unbent before assigning Morton to drive it in the race.

    Does anyone know if it had the three nostrils in the nose before it went to the race? (I like to think those were put there to aggravate Enzo Ferrari...)

    I believe the car is now the famous fliptop. It was reincarnated with a different body with a longer nose. Now the nose is forward hinged, a la Jaguar XKE. It is now owned and raced by Rich Mason of Carson City, NV.
    I kind of wish it could appar/race with the old body but not only was that body thrown away but that is a problem with cars that have been rebodied--with which body do you show them, as in this car's case both bodies are historical?
     
    bitzman, Sep 28, 2006
    bitzman, Sep 28, 2006
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  2. Sep 28, 2006 #2
    67GT500#2100

    67GT500#2100 Shelby Forums Pit Crew

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    Can you share the picture with us? I believe the car is the 427 prototype leaf spring car. CSX2166? I have often heard this car referred to as the "TURD".

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    After asking around I am not sure if CSX2166 and the "TURD" are the same car. Maybe someone else has this information. CSX2196 maybe be the car you are referring to. I think it had an aluminum block 390. I could be wrong about all of this, this is just stories I remember and what friends that I called tonight remember.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2008
    67GT500#2100, Sep 28, 2006
    67GT500#2100, Sep 28, 2006
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  3. Sep 29, 2006 #3
    bitzman

    bitzman Well-Known Member

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    That's the car. I can't post the picture because I don't know how (hey, I grew up when trains were steam powered and airplanes propellor driven) and also I am buying the picture and if I post it the seller might get mad if other people appropriate it off the web. The only interesting thing about it is that Miles is driving and I thought he was too hurt in the crash to drive. What I am curious about is when the car showed up at Sebring did it already have the three GTO-like air intakes on the front hood. I suspect "yes" because they are harder to make than they look like and if he was pounding out the dents all night he might not have had time left to do the three nostrils. So it's just a when-did-the-car-take-on-that-appearance question. Overall I still like the shape of the car much better than the fliptop.
     
    bitzman, Sep 29, 2006
    bitzman, Sep 29, 2006
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  4. Sep 29, 2006 #4
    Jay Bentley

    Jay Bentley Member

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    I thought that the "turd" was easily identified by the fact that it was the only flipnose cobra?

    Jay
     
    Jay Bentley, Sep 29, 2006
    Jay Bentley, Sep 29, 2006
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  5. Sep 29, 2006 #5
    bitzman

    bitzman Well-Known Member

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    It is the only flipnose but I think it was called the turd before it got the second body. I am interested in where the second body was made.I saw a picture of it, rear view, with the monza quick fill cap nestled in a cubbyhole in the rear--don't know if it still has that body.Somehow the picture looks like England, maybe the bare trees in the background. Also have seen pictures of it on a racetrack in dark blue with white stripes but don't know if it ran that liverywhen it was still being raced by Shelby American.Actually I don't know if it was raced or just tested by them before they went on to the new frame design.
     
    bitzman, Sep 29, 2006
    bitzman, Sep 29, 2006
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  6. Sep 29, 2006 #6
    Calvin

    Calvin Well-Known Member

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    You guys are getting the two cars confused.

    CSX2166 was the original bigblock "prototype". It was originally a 289 leaf spring car that they shoehorned the bigblock in the car. It was pretty cobbled together and they rushed the car out to Sebring. I think Ken Miles praticed the car and hit a tree with it. The SA crew pounded the car back in shape sorta and then John Morton did all of the driving in the race. I think the engine blew up in a huge way and nobody complained. I am recalling this from memory so some of it may be very wrong. I think it was nicknamed "Turd" at the race because it looked so bad and handled very poorly.

    CSX2196 is commonly refered to as the "Flip Top" because the front and the back of the car fliped open like the hood on the Daytona coupes. Here are pictuers from http://www.nvsaac.com of CSX2196

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    See, no "GTO" openings like the previous pictures of 2166. CSX2196 also had a 390, but it was an aluminum block engine. This car was built in 1963 and was a very refined and probably the lightest Cobra built. If the Corvette Grand Sport challenge had ever really materialized, there would have been Cobras like the flip top racing against them, and definately giving them a run.

    I am not sure which of these two cars were actually built into a big block first, but I think it was CSX2166.

    Record straight on those two now?
     
    Calvin, Sep 29, 2006
    Calvin, Sep 29, 2006
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  7. Sep 29, 2006 #7
    bitzman

    bitzman Well-Known Member

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    Almost got it straight. My question is: I have been going to vintage races for seems like 40 years (almost back to when the Cobras were new) and I have never seen the first big block prototype running with the three GTO nostril vents. So my question is:

    -Does the car still exist?
    -what kind of body is on it now?
    -is it vintage racing?

    Of course the fliptop exists . I remember when Royal krieger owned it, it was silver. Does anyone know if the dark blue with white stripes that Rich Mason, present owner ,has on it is the original paint scheme as per when the Shelby factory had it?
     
    bitzman, Sep 29, 2006
    bitzman, Sep 29, 2006
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  8. Sep 29, 2006 #8
    Calvin

    Calvin Well-Known Member

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    Recalling form memory.

    It seems to me it had been returned to being a 289 Comp car at some point (like in the '70's or 80's) and I remember it being wrecked vintage racing sometime in the middle to late 80's. It was chronicled in one of the Shelby American magazines from that era.

    I was looking for some recent photos of it and came across this:

    http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=21464

    Since I live near some CSX rails I have often seen the CSX 2XXX and CSX 3XXX engines pulling trains. The whole time I owned CSX 2248 I looked for that engine but never found it.

    I did find a picture on a French web site:

    http://www.burgol.ch/?page=sql.php&item=BSELLERS

    But I also found this:

    http://www.burgol.ch/?page=racingteam.php
    and
    http://burgol.ch/?page=./atelier/atelier_fiche_tech.php&id_voiture=136

    which make me wonder if it has been converted into a Daytona Coupe and is vintage racing in Europe. Anyone hear from Ned Scudder?
     
    Calvin, Sep 29, 2006
    Calvin, Sep 29, 2006
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  9. Dec 26, 2012 #9
    TransamEd

    TransamEd Well-Known Member

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    ..6 years later, but anyway a response is never late...
    csx2166_daytonabody_burgolw.jpg
    Yes it is raced by them as a Daytona Coupe and they still have the nostril body lying around.
    CSX2166_bodyfront.jpg
     
    TransamEd, Dec 26, 2012
    TransamEd, Dec 26, 2012
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  10. Apr 1, 2014 #10
    bitzman

    bitzman Well-Known Member

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    Mike McCluskey told me once that once you took a body off an original Cobra, you couldn't put it back on. You had to make a new body. But at least if the original "nostril" body survives it would be a good measuring tool--exactly how many inches were the nostrils apart, etc.I would think if this car were rebodied as per the style Ken Miles and John Morton raced it, it would be worth $3-4 million at the right auction. but then you'd have to put an alloy block 390 in and it would be squirrely all over again...wasn't it some famous Grand Prix driver that bought it
     
    bitzman, Apr 1, 2014
    bitzman, Apr 1, 2014
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