'65 GT-350 Prices: 5S069 is @ $475,000!

HUH? The same car? What planet are you living on.

 

No Kidding!

65 was a barely street legal race car while the 66 has all those options to garner more sales...and they did(four times as many).

I think that 66 is an absolutly wonderfull car but a 65 is a 65.

However, i do agree that the truly rare cars will hold their values or even grow despite the recent market trends as they truly hold thier own market.

Best Regards

Vern

 

Barely street legal....hmmm.. well let's see both '65 and '66 are:

San Jose HIPO Fastbacks
BOTH have the 306 hp "shelbyized" 289
BOTH have special handling package (front semi metallic discs and 2 1/2" shoes)
BOTH have rear anti-windup traction devices
BOTH have 4 speeds
BOTH have fiberglass hoods
BOTH have Ray Brown Seat belts
and I can go on and on...

Face it dudes - you need to get rid of the hype. The only real modifications were "improvements" by Phil Remington such as Quarter windows to alleviate the B Pillar blindspot, the addition of brake coling scoops, rear exiting exhaust to comply with laws and color for picky buyers who wanted more than white.
Basically it was 98% the same as the '65 but with slight cosmetic changes...and these are the facts here on planet EARTH.

- They had to change the exhaust because of legality - does it steal HP and mean it's not a race car: NO
- Color doesn't matter; it neither ads or takes away performance so who cares
- The quarter windows are much easier to see out of
- I'll admit; the side scoops look cool, but Shelby's own research using them on an R model showed they did little...ok - that's the 2% bogus factor.

 

The only bogus factor here is all of the half baked ideas you are expounding. The only "hype" we need to get rid of is trying to take anything away from the 65 to make the 66 look better.. First of all, the 66's were heavier than the 65's. A number of reasons, not the least of which was the lack of interior sound deadening in the 65's and transmission weight. More on that later.

Handling Package:
Lowered Control Arms - 65 Shelby's - ALL 66's, Some
Koni Shocks - 65 Shelby's - ALL 66's, Some, Mostly Gabriel

Those "rear anti-windup traction devices" consisted of over-ride through-the-floor on the 65's and under ride bars on the 66's.

There was one reason those quarter windows and brake scoops were added in 66. A 65 Shelby looked too much like a stock Mustang for the price. They needed something to set the car apart from other Mustangs. I have driven a LOT of 66 Shelby's and as far as I am concerned those quarter windows are worthless from a vision standpoint.

4 Speeds: Aluminum T-10's on the 65's Top Loaders on the 66's. A considerable weight savings not to mention the gear set.

Another thing that separates the cars. All of the 65 Shelby’s were sports cars. (2 seats). This did not apply to all of the 66's.

I am not trying to take anything away from the 66 Shelby, frankly I would love to have one. It's a fine car but it is NOT a 65 any more than a Daytona Coupe is a 289 Cobra. In 1968, we had a LOT of early Shelby's around here. One guy had a 66 4-speed car, local rich kid who spared no expense. Another guy had a 65. (SFM5S155) working stiff but loved the Shelby. Since both cars were white with blue stripes and both cars had fresh engines done by the same guy, naturally there was a lot of "Gee, which car is faster" That question was finally settled. They took them out to the favorite street racing road and lined them up. To no ones surprise, the 65 was considerably faster. As I remember it, the comments were "That's the difference between a race car and a street car." I suspect is was also the difference in weight.

 

better huh?...the aluminum T-10's were used in the first 300 cars or so in '66, but talk to any racer from the day and he'll tell you they were junk. Guess what got raced most of the time in the cars at the track - yep the good 'ol bullet proof "toploader". I encourage you to talk to Walt Hane, Hank Fournier or Bernie Krestchemar. Fact of the matter is that when the '65 were built they had NO other alternative as the Borg Warner was the only in production. Shelby's mechanics had a pile of them behind the shop where they threw them after the synchros and planetary gears would strip from a race.
As far as your thoughts on the over-ride bars being superior; well again it is well documented that the arms leaked in the car when you drove the thing on the road. They used a piece of tire inner tube rubber as the boot seal at the floor pan and later tried a molded boot, both which caused nothing but complaints because the system was a homemade piece with mickey mouse parts. Once they discovered that the traction master bolt-on solved the problem without homemade boots and holes in the floor pans, then they used the "improved" method. Bottom line is this....like any other manufacturer Shelby's first pieces were the most problematic and over time his engineers slowly resolved problems with better parts and ultimatelly built a "better mousetrap"....despite your love affair with these "specialty items" like the T-10 you seem to be hung up on...and by the way...the difference isn't weight, but 3.89 rear in the '65 and more than likely a 3.50 rear in the '66 (it was not a carryover, but a late car) that contributed to it's being slower...and you could buy an early '66 back in the day with no back set, no radio, no heater, and 3.89...it would be a '65 with side windows and scoops. The same car as a '65 but without the so much Mustang looks and the ugly falcon instrument cluster...

P.S. - By late '66 the fastest GT350 on the tracks was not a '65; not even an R model, but a street '66 ran by Brad Booker and Dave Dralle.


"Seems these days alot of history is foretold as written in books and conceptualized by collectors, not as it actually happened...I know because I was there." - Hank Fournier (TASCA Ford Fabricator/TRANS AM Racer)

 

...I always thought that the 66's were really Chevys..

Come on fellas,, be nice to each other. The "Shelby" circle drawn around these cars includes all years.. and the Dodges and pickup trucks too

Get back to trashing those scumbag clones..
jimbo

 

Horsepower. Some is Good, More is Better, Too Much is Just Enough!

 

Relax fellas,

I think that both are extremely fantastic automobliles in their own right.

The 65 was made as more of a street legal race car, and a great one at that!

The 66 was as more of a sporty street car, once again, a great one at that!

Everyone has different preferences. I know many people that will take a 66 over a 65 any day just simply because they have a passion for that particular car.
Isnt that what the hobby is all about?

I sure hope i will be able to own both examples in the future as i respect exactly what both of these cars represent!

All the Best,

Vern

 

Here's a cheapie!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1965...01QQihZ001QQcategoryZ6465QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

65 Shelby for an amazing $8,000!

All jokes aside though there is a difference to a cars "value" and perceived "value for money" - in my opinion. This is what I mean;

2 Shelbys - a 65 & a 66 in identical colour (white with blue stripes, the only combination!). The 65 is say 300k and the 66 is 150k. The 66 owner might perceive his car being better value for money and cant see why the price difference, but the 65 will always bring a premium in price due to lower production numbers, being a production first, and more hand built features - on the whole.

The market will dictate what it sells for. Whether it is value for money is another thing - but then again I dont have 450k to spend on a car.

Rohan

 

Not to further fuel the fire since both the '65s and '66s are great cars (not trying to shortchange the other Shelbys, but this conversation is centered on the early cars), but how would you rate the '66 crossover cars? Just another '66 or closer to the '65 genre of detuned race car?
Jay
Hand me the keys to any Shelby and I'll come back with a big smile.

 

I guess if you cant decide between the two.....a carryover car would be perfect! Not an expert on carry overs but i feel it is closer to a street legal race car.
Best Regards
Vern

 

The Carryover car is a great way to settle this debate!!

 

In 1971 the Australian Ford Falcon GTHO 351C 4v with a 4 speed toploader made 141 miles top speed FASTEST 4 DOOR SEDAN IN THE WORLD 1971 , we had raod cars and race cars the road cars are selling for Aud +$750k @ Us $615k and a few have changed hands in the last 2 months , now the same model that raced like your racers sell for Aud +$1.2mil @Us $985k. there were only 300 built , sure a car with race history or race specks should command a helthier fee .. same should go for the 65 SHELBY ?
http://www.bonhamsandgoodman.com.au/lot_details.php?lot=27024&view=results&year=2007&offset=0

 

That "Falcon" in Australia is their "SHELBY"!! I believe that High prices come about for many reasons. sometimes they are falsely inflated to get a Market moving at a higher rate. sometimes somebody just "Has to own an item at any price". and sometimes, they are simply "Worth the Money that is Bid"!

 

I had the pleasure of owning 2 GTHO Phase 3's. I sold the last one about 18 months ago which had a genuine 26,000 miles on it, and was an untouched original. I sld it to import a 68 GT500 - as I have always wanted a Shelby and I would also have one hell of a muscle car without the $$ tied up sitting in the garage! I would go down to the shed and the GT500 would get the adrenelin pumping just sitting there.

I have since bought a 66 GT350 and let me tell you the 66 Shelby is alot more value for money than the HO. A 65 Shelby is a rarer car when considering the population of the USA against Australia and is also a worldwide saleable car. The GTHO is not. I certainly did the wrong thing financially selling it but I know which car I'd prefer to have anyday - value for money. A 65 Shelby at 475k against a GTHO at say 610k USD is a bargain.

David you are right. At the moment the prices are based upon ego's wanting to buy a GTHO at any price. They have gone from a reasonable 400k to 650-700k in the matter of 9 months. That particular car was advertised as having a genuine 26k miles, but was fully restored, and even the trim was reproduction.

While the muscle car market has cooled in the USA it is still hot over here with some stupid prices being paid. When it does it will burst like it did in the early 90's.

Rohan

 

rohan LET the truth BE KNOWN " gtho is not a worldwide saleble car " , right mate..... where have you been in the last 35 years .................
mate these inflated prices , in the last 9 months
the americans and europe have just realised the value of the falcon gtho . sometimes they are falsely inflated to get a Market moving at a higher rate. sometimes somebody just "Has to own an item at any price". and sometimes, they are simply "Worth the Money that is Bid"!
In the past 12 months us collectors have placed consignment buyers via agents here in australia and are snapping up these cars ,envelopes of $600us to Us1.3 MIL last offer in perth at the nationals was aud $1.6 mil for a race GTHO which was knocked back by the owner , now the american buyers and the 10,000 australian buyers that have to bid against the 300 produced are only going to make this car desireable worldwide as it has always been , also a worldwide saleable car from what i KNOW FACT a shelby fan in the states who is well known in the shelby parts and restorations ( M Mustangs ) has a phase three in the states and has been there for years , his comment ONCE APPROACHED TO SELL is that particular model the phase three is his retirement fund , this car has been in the states for many years AMONGST THE MANY OTHER GTHO'S THAT I HAVE SEEN SHIPPED INTO AMERICA, i personaly used to lash them down in containers , know why would a collector who restores Rotissorie shelbys be holding onto a gtho as a retirment fund , they have only just started , the gtho is the like the hemis in the states ... AND ON MARKET LEVEL THEY HAVE MORE ROOM TO MOVE .i am sure the 65 shelby will come back to an equal status to the gtho in the us,which is a great thing not for the money but for the status of the 65 as a breed car , yes a breed car , time will tell but remmeber the focus in on the GTHO and the trend were one market platos whilst the other lifts and then the reverse . 65shelby in the near future will definately be the Million dollar mustang . but they will not be as high as the hemis in the us , this is were the GTHO is going , Mate you were doing well to own 2 out of the 300 built ..
also your point that the ozzies are buying the shelby 65 as you have is going to lift this 65 aswell , Australian Muscle cars as collectors have only been in the hipe for the last 3-5 years . its only when cars sell for the big dollars that the rich who have no passion get in on it , just for the ride .........:blush: we , ve got major players and collectors here in Australia
its just that we have just begun to come out of the woodwork .....and be recognised as major players aswell ....... just like the mustang here in australia there are more ford Xb in the states that there is n Australia .
( NOT A WORLDWIDE SALEBLE CAR ) the 66 is looking good aswell watch that move in the market , you should look at buying one to replace the 2 phase3 gtho you used to own.

 

Raven Balck I dont want to get in a slinging match.

I was comparing the 2 cars - value wise. If a 4 door Falcon can be worth $610 USD, a 65 Shelby is worth $475 USD all day long. Whether they are worth (value for money) that sort of money is another thing..

I dont know about you, but I can compare first hand what a Phase 3 drives like - one of the examples I used to own was a 26k mile car and also a Nationals winner.

All of the high dollars paid for Phase 3's have been paid by AUSTRALIAN's. An offer by 1 person from the USA I dont think constitutes a demand for a 4 door Australian Muscle car in the USA.

 

Rohan i know you can mate , if anyone can talk about the ho you can ,
for the record which car pulls up better in braking the shelby or the ho .
i would think the extra dollars you are paying on the GTHO is for the additional body roll it gives you .....