Early 1966 "Crossover" GT350's

The "carryover" cars were already in production at Shelby American when
Ford accountants visited and suggested that the time consuming and
expensive front suspension and rear suspension changes not be done.

By the time their report was submitted and acted upon, all of the "carryover" cars were completed as well as the first numbers of '66's.
shlby66

 

The side stripes were a Shelby addition. They were designed by Pete Brock.
shlby66.

 

The comment about the 252 cars being from the "last day" may be misleading, and can actually be solved.
First and foremost, if we look back at historical records, the San Jose' plant was capable of producing a two day run of 110 cars for the very first batch of 65's <cars 4 to 113; 1, 2 & 3 were a seperate issue>.
So, if we extrapolate, it would appear that 252 cars would be about 4 or 5 days of production.
In addition, if we had the general Ford # range <5R09k abcxxx> of a few cars in that group, we could compare that to the known #'s of standard San Jose' cars and get a very good idea of how close to the end they were built.
As an example, I know the 5R09K abcd xx of the first batch of 65's and even before I "popped" the rivit on # 17, I knew within a set range if it was correct, then Howard confirmed the correlation to the exact #. I do not know the exact correlation of every Ford vin to Shelby vin, although I know a few, and they all fit in a pattern.

Anyone care to provide their 5R09Kabc # without divulging the Shelby VIN & the last 3 digits>?
Anyone on the list have a record of the highest Ford # in 65 for San Jose'?
Anyone think I have missed something, feel free to help.

M.

 

Along with the 65 GT dash the headlight feed harness was also for a GT which included the pigtails for the foglights. Also a number of later carryover cars have had some compelling evidence of a blue engine block. There was a Shelby memo talking about a shortage of hipo engines at the end of 65 production which might explain this. The thing that complicats things is the lack of evidence to indicate wether the blue block 66 carry over cars would get the 3939S or the 4201 fuel pump? I painted 6S 189 black with a 3939s fuel pump even though it is one of the suspected blue blocks. Another weird thing is of all things a blue painted alt fan.The first time I saw this it was on a car I was judging at the SAAC nationals done by Jim Cowls with the help of the owner Jim Cruden. Jim had here-say evidence on the facts about the blue fan. We gave him the benefit of the doubt but I admit not without a few snickers .I am eating crow now because I have seen evidence of blue paint on the fans of two other unmolested Shelby alts on late carryover cars .This makes me believe that at least a few of these blue fans were in fact used on hipo/Shelby's in early 66 production.Don't ask me why they would have painted them on just a few.More mystery. Bob G.

 

Carry Over on Ebay!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1966...oryZ6465QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Best Regards,
Vern

 

6s076 on ebay does have a 65GT dash cluster instead of a 66 dash. It has a concave 65 glovebox door. Did they not come with the GT glovebox door to match or they just got the regular concave version ?

 

I have another question on the crossover cars but it may be applicable to other cars as well. While 6s081 does not have its original engine block, it has an original Shelby '65 5R09K..... block as verified by SAAC. Was switching of blocks at Shelby American common on the crossover cars to support the last '65 deliveries or was this done for some other reason? On a different, but related note, has anyone compiled a complete matrix of the info from this thread (and other sources) that would attempt to show all of the little differences on the crossover cars?
Jay

 

It was uncommon for any switching of engines after the fact. In 67 there were some GT500's with K code in the vin. But I don't believe there was any switching of engines it was a clerical thing. All of the carry over cars had 65 vin numbered blocks to match the chassis they were put in as far as I know. The later carryover cars were reported to be involved in situation which had to do with not enough 289 hipo engines being available. It is unknown for sure how it was handled. They were all marked K code cars. Did they come down the line with 289 A code engines and have them pulled and replaced ? Were the units delivered to Shelby without engines? It is more likely that Ford waited until the engines were available and then the cars were run down the line but we may never know.

 

For 6s081 I believe it was delivered to SA with the correct matching engine, however, it now has an engine that was from a 1965 gt350 according to SAAC (ie Howard Pardee) and its 5R09K number is well before mine. When buying my car 17 years ago I asked SAAC about the discrepancy and they said it looks like the engine from my car was removed at SA and replaced with an earlier engine for some reason. My question from above was did anyone know of a reason that this might have occurred with the crossover cars. FWIW, SAAC was going to contact the owner of the '65 GT350 that matches the engine that is in my car to let them know I had it, but I have never been contacted by the owner of that car. I have also asked SAAC if they had any records of my car's original engine, but they do not know where it ended up.

6s087,
please pass along the matrix/info sheet after you have it compiled (PM sent with my e-mail address), It will be very interesting to see.
Jay

 

I can give you the most likely scenerio from personal experience. I have a 66 Hert that had the engine from a 65 Shelby. The engine vin was part of the history that SAAC had on record from previous owners. Finally after some years the owner of the 65 Shelby that the engine in my car belong to contacted me by way of SAAC. We were able to come to a agreement and I sold him the engine . It was a case of both cars being in the same garage at the same time with engines being worked on early in its life and getting switched by mistake. Don't assume that people have always been aware that VIN numbers were stamped on these blocks or the importance of that fact. 20 Years ago I constintly had to argue that they did VIN on the blocks and in later models on the trans. My point being that there was no special signifigance given to the blocks (until they started becomeing very valuable about 18 years ago), other then the unique hipo parts. They were all hipos and one was as good as another. We know better now. SAAC had that history on my car reported to it by a previous owner it sounds like in the same way your car had it reported. My case was most UNLIKLY done at Shelby because it was a later 66 GT350 H and the 65 car the 65 engine came out of would have had to be around the plant for a extra ordinary time. There could be a special interesting story behind the switched engines in your car but given the fact that these cars were built to run hard and the owners generaly complied many engines were blown ,rebuilt, modified etc. so a more likely scenerio would be the "switched with another Shelby at a garage" just like what is a matter of record for my car in SAAC's achives. I did eventually find the VIN number block for my car too. The best of luck with search for the truth on your car.Bob

 

Bob.
Interesting thought on the switch occurring at a garage outside of the Shelby facility. However, wouldn't that mean the 2 engines would be switched and it would be easy for the 2 car owners to get together and just swap them back? I know of one other car now (3 total) that had a switch made somewhere along the line to a different Shelby block and it has never been as simple as 2 cars having reversed engines. Makes me think something happened at SA as opposed to at a later garage. Oh well, I will probably never know for sure in my instance, but I did get the answer to my orginal question, no ones knows of a reason why SA would be exchanging blocks.
Thanks,
Jay

 

I didn't mean to suggest it was simple thing or that it would be as easy as the same two cars switching back.I was only posing that it was a more plausable answer to the question of how engines might change from one car to another over the course of 40+ years and that it had in fact happened to me. In my case it was easy for the owner of the 65 GT350 thats engine was in my 66H to get it back because it hadn't been changed out since the switch back then. Not so with the engine that belonged in my car because it wasn't in the 65 GT350's engine compartment or do I know if it ever was. I had a much longer goose chase before I found it somewhere else. Bob

 

Although I'd really like to find a '65 to restore, the thought of a carryover might offer something a little different from where I am now. I believe if someone was potentially willing to work a deal on a carryover, I might offer my fully restored '66 and some cash for one. At least it would give me something new to work on over the winter...

 

Just to continue the discussion a bit. In general (plenty of examples) sequential vin numbers do no indicate when a car is built.

From examples we have the last (highest sequential number) could have been built up to three week (almost a month) before a car with a VIN number 3,000 earlier.


We will likely never know for sure when the left/carry over group was built. Not real important just an exercise and point of discussion at this point IMHO

 

Back to the GT dash: It should be noted that the sheet metal dash will be stamped different than other 65 unibodies to clear the round speedometer at the lower side. It has a indention with the same radius as the speedometer with a rolled lip. GT's or cars with pony interior or all 66 cars would also have this. If the dash has been cut or ground to make clearance that should be a red flag.