Weber

Webers did not come on 65 Shelby's from the factory. You could buy them over the counter for mutliple small block applications . They were most often used on the 289 Cobras and GT 40's. I think in Canadian races you could run them on a 65 GT 350 R model back in the day. In the States the sanctioning bodies wouldn't allow 65 Shelby's to run Webers. I am not sure how the drag racing sanctioning bodies considered them. I am still learning about all the differences between the vintage type and the various small newer parts used as the design was improved . I hesitate giveing you my criteria for fear of giving you incomplete information that you will need to make a informed decision. The best of luck with your project.

 

Sorry I don't know seperate prices but do I know you see them complete intake ,webers and linkage new and used from 1995.00 to 5,000.00 depending what condition,what intake, if IDF or IDA new style webers vs old style ,style and condition of linkage to name a few things. Webers can be a blessing or can ruin your car experience if you don't know how to tune them. goggle weber carbs direct. Hope this helps.

 

I have been researching the various versions of intakes, carburetors, water necks, linkages, etc. used and sold by Shelby et al., described generically as "Webers", for decades. As with many things related to the 1960s and Shelby there was more than one version of almost everything. Messrs. Moon and Shelby were the contacts for down draft 48 mm Webers for in the USA. The details I have documented are way too much to report here. The most informative details of the carburetors themselves are exact model numbers and serial numbers. If you can get exact model numbers, serial numbers, and good images of everything to me I will tell you how they fit into the database I have.

To get you a start, if the carburetors are marked 48 IDA4 without serial numbers or 48 IDA4R they are later than circa September 1970 based on my data collection. There was per Dean Moon information a 48 IDA4 model available but for engines that could not use a 48 IDA-1. Moon and Shelby both offered 48 IDA-1 based “COBRA” model systems for 289 Fords per their sales literature.

In 1963 there was 48 IDM1s. In 1964 there were 48 IDM1s, 48 IDAs, and 48 IDA-1s. By 1965 46 IDA2 and 46 IDA3 (46 mm) versions showed up in literature for applications like a Buick 215 c.i.d. engine. (As mentioned above, also in 1965 the 48 IDA4 model showed up for applications other than something like a 289 Ford or larger.) Shelby American circa June 1964 through Autosports in 1971 used, advertised, and sold 48 IDA-1 models for 289 engines with various COBRA lettered intakes and at the end SHELBY lettered intakes. Some early 1964 systems on team car engines had modified 48 IDA carburetors. Some early systems sold retail have 48 IDA and 48 IDA-1 models mixed on the same intake but the IDAs had been upgraded to IDA-1 specifications to make them match.

These days 48 IDM1s are extremely rare in any condition. (Other racing companies had IDMs built to suit their applications. I have seen images of 48 IDM5s so that implies IDM2s, IDM3s, and IDM4, also were made.)

48 IDAs not on a Cobra or Shelby and for sale are very rare.

48 IDA-1s are rare and with low serial numbers (less than 350) seldom offered for sale.

46 IDA2 and IDA3 models seem to be the rarest as I have only seen the one system sold of ebay® some time ago.

48 IDA4s with serial numbers are uncommon.

48 IDA4s and 48 IDA4Rs (no serial numbers) are common and have been counterfeited in mass at least twice, once cira 1972.

Like many things “Shelby” counterfeits have been around for decades. “289 COBRA Weber” systems have been sold new since circa 1981-82 so beware of “NOS” stuff unless it is in a Shelby American parts department shipping box (saw a genuine NOS 1966 version system circa 1999).

Dan

 

http://www.hipomustang.com/hpmx/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6162&SearchTerms=weber

Here's a thread on another forum.

 

This one is associated with a works GT40.


So far, units with serial numbers less this have been found on some type works competition car or in the use by works supported independent racers.

You can use most photo software packages to resize the image down to a size you could e-mail me.

 

So far my data base includes units scattered between early 1964 and 1970. Only the IDAs and IDA-1s are Shelby units.


Model Lowest SN Highest SN
IDA 017 1216
IDA-1 442 1629
IDA4 289 4502

Base on who it is believed to have originally had each one on what I have located I am GUESSING serial numbers between 001 and roughly 200 were manufactured in 1964 and units over 1,000 were made between maybe 1966 and early 1970.

 

Dan, thank you for taking the time for the break down on the Weber info it was very helpful for me and I appreciate it. Bob

 

Your welcome Bob. There is a lot more, just too much for an on-line forum. I have documented more than a dozen system variations from Shelby. The first systems were extremely complicated, all the levers hand fabricated, and all the fasteners and bearings aircraft or AN. Miller made base gaskets for Shelby and the fastener companies are long ago out of business. Later systems are more mass produced with die stamped levers and heavy duty industrial fasteners, but still using aircraft bearings. The trend over time was move from hand made to mass production. The hand made systems listed for over $1,200 retail in 1963 and the last mass production system $595 from around 1965 to 1971. The carbertors themselves also went from hand made and fine details to mass produced with lower cost alternatives. Just as finding a complete unmolested Shelby car is difficult, so is findings an umolested Weber system.

 

Update:
Since the last post some more model and serial numbers have been reported.

Model Lowest SN Highest SN
IDA 017 1216
IDA-1 102 1629

So far I have no duplicate serials numbers, i.e. models and serials are separate subjects. It seems serial numbers are just whatever was next.

A trend also appears to be that Shelby works and Shelby back independents used IDA models no matter what style intake or car they were used on. The trend, and this does not mean proof, is that systems with a IDA-1s or mixtures of IDAs and IDA-1s were used by retail customers and or other race teams. Again, trends don’t mean proof but they are interesting. Also serial numbers below 193 are currently associated with the Shelby works team or independents backed by Shelby.

Timing? The earliest 48 IDA4 (applications other than engines like 289 c.i.d. V-8s per Dean Moon’s literature) in the data base is serial number 289. That is interesting I think because the January 1965 Weber manual only lists IDA and IDA-1 models and early rebuild kits only list IDA and IDA-1 models. A letter from Dean Moon to a customer in June 1965 indicates that IDA4s were coming available. This is further evidence that serial numbers after roughly 200 were made 1965 or later. Not proof but the best evidence so far.

 

A word on intakes based on questions from people on other forums. There were two styles of COBRA lettered intakes for 48 IDM1 and 48 IDA/IDA-1 carburetors. (This does include variations in machining treatments early versus late, stock heads or milled heads, Shelby works versus retail which also happened.)

Style I
Style one has carburetors on left and right banks facing opposite directions. Shelby’s works developed and used several different designs of linkages to connect and operate the carburetors. This style intake is the one associated with Cobras.

Style II
Style two has the carburetors on the left and right banks facing the same direction. Here too there were several “factory” treatments of the linkage and some may have been the difference between Moon’s and Shelby’s shops. All of them are somewhat simple as compared to linkage for the first style. Folklore says this design intake was produced for GT350s. I don’t think so. I managed to get a copy of some of the original casting, machining, installation, and linkage drawings produced by Shelby American. The date on the second style intake drawing? October 1963 if I recall correctly. (What I have is a photo copy. It appears genuine. The person that claims possession of the originals would have no real motive here in 2007 to go make fake drawings. My copies weren’t even expensive to get.) Mustangs were not even in production then. Furthermore I believe that the first works Cobra to try one did so around the end of March or early April 1964 based on various old reports. Mustangs were starting up then but I don’t think GT350s were in the plan yet?

 

In the late 70's or early 80's there was a guy, Ronald Bloom
in Sweden, that created (crossed) a Weber intake and a Cobra
intake, i.e. got the same thermostat housing as a standard
intake and he also turned the Webers a bit different than the
original intake. Got better flow according to him.
Was reported in the SAAC magazine at that time.
Texas Swede