Restoring 65 GT350 Emblem

Which emblem (taillight panel?) are you referring to?

 

Hi,
I was lucky and found an original in a Ford box
but I have been told that people use some really
fine steel wool and then paint the whole side, then again
use steel wool on a flat piece of wood and very carefully
use it to remove the paint on the upper surface, making sure that
the steel wool doesn't reach down into the grooves.
Another method would be to grease around the grooves
making sure that nothing gets down into them, paint, let dry and
wipe off with a cloth.
Good luck,
Texas Swede

 

I don't own a Shelby, so I've obviously never done it, but I have an idea you might want to consider, which is finding someone who restores antique clocks. I had a clock restored by a gentlemen who specializes in antique English grandfather clocks and he was showing me a couple of his personal pieces which had their faces restored. Apparently there are people who specialize in restoring clock faces and they work on pieces that are very intricate (i.e. moon phase dials) and deal with reliefs, etc. The other reason I think they might be well suited to work on your emblem is that they're accustomed to saving as much of the original finish as possible. The obvious down side is that they're probably not working with the same paint materials as would be required for your emblem, but they should have a steady hand and lots of teeny, tiny brushes that they use under a magnifying glass.

I know... sounds ridiculous. I'm laughing at myself just proofreading it , but it's just an idea. I'd love to see before and after pic's regardless of how you decide to tackle it.

Josh

 

If all it needs is the black redone... its pretty straight forward. Good quality semi-gloss black applied to the recesses then I would bake the paint as I do for many of my parts.

If the face/surface has scratches and needs to be redone .... I don't know of any process that (considering the "brushed" look over a plated surface it appears to be) will resurface and return the look exactly like it originally was.

 

Don't Kill me for this but: Is there a differance between the Original Emblem and the Reproductions?
David.

 

In the 1970s I had two unrestored 1965 GT350s. One was very low mile and hadn't ever been driven on wet roads until around 1981 when I got caught is a shower one night driving back from an event. Those cars had what appeared to be die cast zinc parts that were 100% painted, an argent silver for the body and flat or semi flat black for the letters. In 1978 I bought some NOS (blue and gray FoMoCo packages and not later blue and white Ford) 1965 GT350 parts (ever seen S1MS header to cylinder head gaskets in FoMoCo envelopes?) for one car. Included was a NOS rear panel emblem. It too was 100% painted the best I recall. I didn't use it. I got a NORS (later issue) Ford one that was brushed aluminum and kept the painted one. I kept it safe until a few years ago when I sold it to a person doing a super fine detail restoration on his 1965 GT350. I sold the car I bought the NORS part for and the NORS part went with it but I noticed that the NORS part would not mount in he original holes in the car's body that a painted one fit in. I elongated both holes slighlty for the NORS one to work. If I remember correctly there were also very small differences in the lettering.

The person I sold that NOS emblem to visits this forum occassionally I believe. Maybe he can confirm the all painted version.

I had a very original unrestored 1966 GT350 at the same time and it had a brushed finish emblem like the NORS Ford one.

 

I had a cheezy looking original emblem. I got it from an original owner who put a new version on his perfect car. (I provided the new emblem). My car is a 65 clone and it is way too nice of a car to put that oxidized mess on. I decided to use an original GT 350 gas cap (scratched up with wear marks) back there instead. I've never tried to fool anyone about my car being real.. Anyone can spot the real cars they are all brand new again.
jimbo

 

The Shelby cars I like the most, includes 1965-66 GT350s and Cobras, are all unrestored - maybe not 100% stock - might have been painted decades ago (few). There are more than you might think. Some are a little rough. A very few are pristine. A car was purchased last week that has been locked in a garage for more than 30 years.

If a car can survive intact without a major crash, modification, or restoration for four decades why ruin it now?

 

I forgot, last month we went to look at an early 1966 GT350 that was put in a warm dry garage circa 1972 and has not been out since around 1973. The car is not perfect but the owner has protected all these years and it is pretty nice for a 40+ year old car. A friend is trying to negotiate its purchase. It needs mechanical revival but not a restoration.

There seems to be a new wave of "barn finds" coming to light of day right now. The last jump in values is making owners that never use the cars start to let them go. The ones I know about have owners perhaps age 65 or over and the are starting to realize they are not going to do anything with them. I have seen a 1966 GT350, several neat rough to mint 1965-66 Mustangs, a 1967 GT350, a 1970 Boss 302 that fit into this catagory lately.

 

I agree so much with you here.. When is see these re-created cars I can't spend more than a minute looking at them.. They all look exactly the same.
what is the point.. I think of them as re-blued old guns. yech!

Don't do it!
Pamper it, keep it running and drive the damned thing!!!
jimbo

 

Ah, super eljimb0, we meet again....

I have to disagree with you on several of your comments in this thread.

There are still cars out there, waiting to be found that may or may not be what you would like them to be. Sure, it would be great to have a guy open up his barn or garage door (the pic I use, taken when the previous owner pulled the door up for the first time, see below) and the car is an original paint, ready to turn the key, just has the right "Patina" example.
Not everyone put their cars away and tucked them in for a nice 30 year snooze. If a car is found in such a condition that a gentle freshening is all that is required, that should be how it is handled. (my opinion only, some want the shiniest example they can build)
As is often the case, just finding a Shelby that has not been left "defenseless" to the ravages of time (and Mother Nature) is hard enough.

What makes a car re-created? Just say that you found a Shelby. It has sat for about 30 years without moving under it's own power, and prior to that it was driven hard, then put away? All the Shelby specific parts, etc are there.
Paint is not savable, just getting the car unstuck from the gear it's in is a chore. All of the mechanical parts need to be removed and brought back to life.
Would taking all the original parts, bringing each back to it's factory condition, then putting the entire collection back together be wrong? Would it be re-created?
What makes them look all the same anyway? Hell there has to be at least 10 different variations (some Minor I admit) of 65 350's alone. Early 65's did not have the rear badge this thread started discussing.
If you found a historic pistol that belonged to someone you admire, would you turn down the offer to buy it simply because it's barrel needed some attention, or it's pearl handle or stock needed repair? Would you attempt to use it, and possibly injure yourself or others if there was some rust or mechanical deficiency? (hence the re-blueing?)
Not all of the real cars are brand new, and not all of the brand new cars are real. It takes a discerning eye to pick out what is real, and what is an illusion.

Mike

 

Bringing a car stored for a long time back to safe driveable condition doesn’t automatically mean “restore” it. Not to some of us.
In the late 1970s I purchased SFM5S142 for top dollar. It had been sitting locked up in a dry garage for a decade plus by that time. As purchased it had
• a broken hood (all fiberglass style), in fact one rear corner was completely missing (about a square foot worth), both rear corners were broken and like most original paint hoods had thousands of paint blisters and missing dots from busted blisters all over it.
• both front fenders had damaged leading edges, looked like it was run up some type ramp and the fenders got bent. It could have been from loading on a trailer as the car had very nice tow mounts welded to the front chassis.
• had some narrow misaligned weird (size and color) blue stripes over the top.
• was missing its original wheels and carburetor.
• had an extra rear leaf added to the rear springs.
• it had 3.50:1 differential gears.
• was missing one COBRA battery cap and vent hose, the original battery was replaced just before I got it unfortunately.
• showed slightly raised paint in the form of lettering on both sides that had been removed with lacquer thinner before I got the car. The former painted on lettering was large and very hard to see. The only words I could make out were “Roanoke Virginia.”
It was real low mileage and I always suspected it was used in some type of competition (tow bar mounts, different carburetor, different wheels, different axle gears, extra leaf in rear springs, and clear evidence it had large lettering painted down the entire length of both sides) car when new but I never found the original owner or any history. Otherwise it was very original and extremely clean. It showed no evidence of ever being driven on a wet road. There were not only grease pencil marks on the chassis and various parts and assemblies but some very fragile chalk marks. Bare steel and iron surfaces had darkened but there was not even a patina of red rust. The headers still had nice paint except for right at the exhaust ports.
AND it couldn’t be driven much more than on and off a trailer. The brakes, even though rust free, were nearly locked. Every rolling element bearing in the chassis was ruined from sitting for more than ten years, even the bearings in the differential and transmission. The babbit liners of the cam, rod, and main bearings were delaminating and coming off.
I have seen many Shelby and Boss Mustangs and even Cobras and 427 Cobras that were in better condition than this that new owners immediately stripped down and “restored”, usually with lots of reproduction parts and custom modifications. Yep, image a 427 Cobra with just over 5,000 miles on it being torn down and everything rubber, leather, vinyl, plated, or painted changed out just to make everything cosmetically perfect. (Note: Unless the perfect car is never run or driven stored and in a sealed container without light and under an inert atmosphere it won’t stay perfect. I know where a 1978 Corvette is that has 0.3 miles on it. It was perfect in 1978 when I saw it first but it wasn’t a few weeks ago when I saw it last. It is still very nice but not perfect. A patina has developed everywhere even though the car has not been outside since the day it was delivered by trailer and rolled back wards into its hiding place. I have seen Shelby Mustangs and various Cobras “restored” by several owners each over a twenty year period. They never stay perfect. If they cannot stay perfect then there is no use in ME having a perfect car. )
Back to SFM5S142. I didn’t restore it but I did make the repairs necessary to make it fully useable and I did modify the engine internally for more power.
• didn’t have any 3.89:1 gears around but I did have the high impact 3.91:1 gears that came in my Boss 429 Mustang when it was new. The difference in 3.89 and 3.91 is less than what different tire diameters affect so I used them.
• every rolling element cup and cone or Conrad roller bearing the car was replaced with OEM service parts. Ford wasn’t much help on the transmission but Borg-Warner still made transmissions at the time and an engineer there rounded up all the parts I needed to rework the transmission including new synchronizer assemblies and forks.
• the brakes were completely dismantled, cleaned, and resassembled. I did use new OEM pads up front.
• found and traded for a near mint set of GT350 Cragar wheels. I got one Blue Dot for a spare and fortunately the original cover was still with the car.
• tracked down a near mint good date for the car List-3259 Holley.
• reworked the engine. I did paint it because hot tanking removed all the original paint. I did not media blast (once blasted it never has the original appearance again) anything that I recall. I don't like to media blast anything except as a last resort. If washing didn’t remove it, it stayed.
• repaired the hood, which was very labor intensive. I ended up making a mold from a stock Mustang hood (similar to what we think the original Shelby supplier did) and replicating a rear corner. It spent a lot of time grafting that corner in and getting the repair invisible from the top side. You can see that both corners were repaired from the underside if you know what original was. Painting that hood was trouble. I ended up doing the complete job six times until I managed to match the color, orange peel, and gloss of the original paint it had (less blistering of course) without color sanding, painting, or even waxing. I tried more than one brand of paint too because PPG, SW, and RM all dried to different shades.
• once the hood was repaired and back in place the weird top stripes were addressed. Fortunately they were narrow. Being real narrow allow me to mask off Mr. Brock’s original pattern and carefully slowly color sand them off and prepare a good base for new stripes. Once the new stripes were painted on you could not tell the weird ones had ever been there.
I was done. I did not mess with the scrapes on the front fenders, the raised evidence of lettering on the sides, or any other minor cosmetic defect inside or out. Nothing was media blasted (best I recall, I just got a machine this year.) and the only things refinished were the engine, hood, and over the top stripes. I don’t call that a restoration. I call everything I did but engine “blue printing” repairs. I never have been much of a show and shine person although I entered my Boss 302 in the first Mustang Club of America event at Stone Mountain in 1976, but I did show SFM5S142 in one regional show. Right beside it was an every nut and bolt restored (it had to be restored by the owner to be useable– it had been a drag racer and was generally good but beat when he got it) 1965 GT350. My car won, partly because almost everything on it was as it left Ford/Shelby American and what wasn’t like the wheels and carburetor could have been.
Yes, I realize that not many cars are found in a condition that allows only repairs. Some might be really nice with just a good repainting. I have seen my share of rusted, wrecked, raced, or just highly modified cars that repairs just wouldn’t do. Certainly these cars are good candidates for nut and bolt rebuilds, if they can be. I am totally against moving a VIN plate to another chassis. I know it happens and one high dollar “1965” car has morphed into a different chassis twice (oops the first time was a 1966 chassis so somebody found a 1965 one to try again) at least. There are some cars out there (I have seen two here lately) that a good mechanical overhaul and selected repairs would make them great cars to go share the legend with. Keep them as original you can is my plan on these legendary cars from Ford/Shelby in the 1960s.

 

I don't do much with early GT350s any more except help a few people in their parts searches. My passion lays with original Cobras, and in particular the cars between CSX2201 and CSX2589.

I do advise anybody restoring any type of car to restore their car they way it came and not like everybody else’s. All cars have production variations, revisions, and just plain mistakes but the Shelby cars between 1962 and 1970 have a bumper crop of them. Cars finished a few days apart can be significantly different. If the car you are working on has something different than what most people say is correct, do your home work before changing it. If you can contact former owners or you are blessed with having pictures of the car when new or other documentation I would for sure leave the feature. Experts and old guys like me are just starting points. Example: Around 1975 I was trying to get spark plug wires for my 1970 Boss 429 Mustang at Woody Anderson Ford. They not only special ordered the car new for Tony Deloach (spelling) but repaired the engine twice under warrantee around 1970-71. The parts counter person and long time parts manager tried to tell me Ford never made such a car. I had the whole crew follow me to the parking lot to see the car Ford didn’t make but they sold new. (They did know about Boss 302s as one of them raced one.)

I work for one of the world’s largest manufacturing companies (30+ years). Our plant is one of the largest production sites for our product type in the Americas. We send out around 5,000 finished goods a day. Are there odd balls in the form of mistakes, trial runs, pilot runs, substitutions, alternate vendors, and revisions? Yes, every day. What counts most, everyone the same or get them made and sold? Made and sold is the rule of the day, most covered under written deviation but I am sure based on service calls some are just oops. Did this happen on new cars from FoMoCo/AC Cars/Shelby/A.O. Smith “you bet ya’”. For example: I have a tiny “mistake” on CSX2310 that no one but me has said anything about. A small one concerns the throttle bell crank over the engine. The throttle bell crank Shelby American had produced is supposed to have a small hole in each end for a carter pin type fastener. Every original one I have studied except the one on CSX2310 has holes on each end. The bell crank on CSX2310 only has a hole on one end and I will never drill the other just to make that little detail fit the norm.

The cars were not made all alike. Do your best to determine how your car was made and sold and rebuild it that way is my advice. (This would keep all restored cars from looking just alike which more and more people seem to dislike.)

 

Dan,
I am in agreement with your last two posts.
Keeping the car the way it came from Shelby, with it's deviations from norm is how I like to see them. And If restoring one, it should be kept that way.
There was a recent sale of a 65 GT350, super shiny, fully (over) restored to better than factory. The body was not a 65, nor a San Jose' car and was missing HiPo details underneath. Looked real nice though! Buyer paid huge $ for an illusion.

Mike

 

I cannot figure why anyone buys bogus cars. There are plenty of resources around to get down to facts, somebody always knows when fakes are done. It is just not Shelby cars. All 40 each something of the original 36 each 1962-64 Ferrari GTOs are "still" in existence. I bet at least 150% of the 1969 L-88 Corvettes and Z/28 Camaros still exist.

Back when there was no way for me to get a Cobra in the mid 1970s but I could afford GT350s I checked out a bunch of them. I kept records on the worst ones. I didn't do a tally but I bet at least 20% of what I examined were in such poor condition by 1977 that saving the original chassis was not going to happen. The cars from northern states were often so rusty some literally didn't have a place a seat would stay bolted to anymore. Ever seen a mostly missing trunk compartment with the rusty leaking fuel tank being supported with wood and wires from the top opening rails? I have in what use to be a 1965 GT350. I also saw some cars that were raced or formerly crashed that were cobbled up badly. Just how do you restore a really rusty car that was then rolled in a big way? I saw lots of cars that had been cobbled together from halves or quarters from more than one car. Do you think those 20% cars have been declared gone? I don’t. That is part of why early GT350s lost their appeal to me. I had a very nice car in SFM5S142. I didn’t care for it when somebody with a 1966 Mustang wearing parts that use to be on a 1965 GT350 that was destroyed claimed their car was not only exactly like mine but better because it was restored. (Restored from a VIN plate and title.) I saw the opposite once, an early 1965 Mustang (early front floor capert, early wipers, six cylinder features still in place, etc.) wearing a mid production 1966 GT350 plate in a MCA Concours once. So much fraud. (I have cooled but I am still interested somewhat. I tried unsuccessfully in 2003 to buy the early 1966 GT350 that a friend is now trying to buy. This is the car that was been stored since about 1973. For a while I looked for a decent original blue 1966 model and I have a lead on an unrestored one that has been stored a long time. Unfortunately the pictures indicate it was stored in a damp location. Can you say surface corrosion and mildew?)

 

I am in complete agreement with the last few posts. Moving serial numbers around is a complete sham. When the car can't be put back together anymore... it is gone. It is the car and not the serial number. There is so much money tied up in this stuff now that the going is getting very weird.

"when the going gets weird,.. the weird turn pro"
Hunter S. Thompson


Dan,
Thanks for posting your story. In my opinion you did it exactly right.
jimbo

 

Jimbo..just sent you a private message