Value of Original Engine - 67 GT350

I'll be curious as to the replies you get.
Many years (over 10) when I spent a lot more time on this portion of the hobby there was a debate as to whether or not all all 67 small blocks even got matching numbers. The guesstimate at that time was that nearly 40% of the cars didn't have vin stamped blocks.
This was tough to verify then -- now I don't believe what most owners tell me.
I will be surprised if this adds 10% to the value.
Anyone with enough interest and connections can stamp a number in a block.

 

My 67 GT350 doesnt have its original engine but has a complete Hipo engine out of another Shelby as well - its VIN has been confirmed by the SAAC as being out of a Shelby.

I think its the next best thing to having the "original" numbers matching engine - at least its out of a Shelby!

I feel you do need to be careful about putting a high % value on having a "numbers matching" car - unless you can be 100% sure it is the original motor. Cars can be "restored" and correct engine bits can be sourced and found.

If you have a non-matching engine but with all the correct partsexternally, I think 25% is a very high percentage to deduct. Personally I place more important on making sure the car hasnt been cut and shut, rebodied.

My 66 is a numbers matching car - all date codes line up with the heads, block, transmission, rear end and is a VIN stamped block. With knowing its history, I'd be 99.9% sure it is the original motor.

Rohan

 

I'd say more like 5-10% but it would be higher if the entire drivetrain, sheetmetal, fiberglass were original

 

There are a whole lot of "if's" here:

First off, "if" the original body is still around.
2nd; "if" the owner is even interested in having it.
3rd; "if" the current owner has the money. Note that, there are periods when you have money in your life, and other periods when you just can't afford it.
4th; "if" the owner is even the type who visits forums like this. I still run into Mustang owners who have never heard of this forum, stangnet, or the VMF.

Whats it worth? I'd trade my non original engine to you plus maybe $2000 to get the original engine reunited.

But my 67 GT 350 still has the original engine.

 

If you had the original engine (that was in usable condition) to a Shelby I owned I would believe it would be worth at least $2K more to me that just another K code.

If I didn't have the original engine for a Shelby it would not make a bit of difference if the current engine I had in the car was from another Shelby or from a K code Mustang. In either case it will would not be the original engine since the Shelby engine was only different because of a couple of bolt on items.

Just one opinion of course.

 

Being that the words matching numbers is so vastly abused today, i would say that original engines are becoming slightly less significant, however, i feel the original is worth more than 2k plus trade.
Vern

 

I think Roddster is right on. $2K plus all the effort and cost to pull both engines, reinstall, ship, etc....adds up very fast. Some cars never came with a VIN stamped block, so why should they be deemed as less valuable just b/c you can't "prove" the engine is original?

I can't find the VIN on my K code or my dad's Shelby. The date codes are believable, but there is no way to prove or disprove either engine is original to the car. Does that make it less valuable? Why should that be if some cars came from the factory without a VIN stamped on the block to begin with?

 

I'm in the same boat as 66KGT. I've owned my 67 GT350 for 20 years and I have talked to the previous two owners and they confirmed that th engine was original. The date codes on the engine components and the build date stamped in the oil pan rail all are appropriate for the build date of the car.

And yet there is not any VIN stamped on the motor anywhere. I've had it out of the car, cleaned it and looked over it with a magnifying glass and there is nothing there. So while I believe it to be the original motor I can't "prove" it.

IMO your engine doesn't add any more value to the car than any other reasonably date coded K engine.

And don't hold your breath hoping that the original car is still out there.

 

Hmmm, so 2206's reply indicates a probable original engined car with no numbers stamped into the block.

Any other engines found that have all the correct date codes, yet no vin stamping?
If the head and block are stamped in relative close proximity to each other (and the correct block casting code) that pretty well nails it for me.

This may a difficult question to get answered as who wants to say in print their engine does not have the piece of pedigree everyone else assumes it must have?

Just out of curiousity -- are points deducted in concours for no number?

ON Edit -- just found this post from Dave Mathews:
http://www.shelbyforums.com/forums/...-instead-k-code-fender-stamp-2.html#post25051

Appears that some number of GT350s were not stamped. I wonder again how many and did it apply to many ranges of vin...

 

Only proves/suggests that the heads and block came together ... not that they belong in a particular car

Depends on the class and the governing club. But yes they are situations where a car would lose points.

As for Dave's comment not sure how you would prove cars came without VIN's. Very hard to prove something like that. Would need a group of documented cars all built during a period - with no deviations - lacking the details. Mustangs and Shelbys if built during that period. Short of that IMHO it becomes a belief or trust issue.

 

I didn't explain that very well, did I?

If the owner of a car could document his head and block as being quite close to each other in build date, the casting number was correct and the engine appeared in all respects to be a hi-po 289, then he could have a hi-po 289 of a specific build date with no external K code stamp.
It appears earlier K code engines were more reliably stamped with a vin, so having a non-vined hi-po at least tells us it's probably not a 65/6.
The assertion that some GT350s came without vin stamps at least makes it possible that this engine came from a 67 GT350.
If the assembly date of the car closely matched the engine date we would have enough data to suggest that the engine came from the car. "Nails it" was too flip.

Missing in this is data on how close the engine build dates correlates to car assembly times.
In a limited study -- 30 cars or so -- I did on 67 GT350s during SAAC shows it appeared that the assembly date on the block closely matched the steering box date.
I don't know if this was sheer coincidence or what, but during this time a lot of Mustangs were moving through the factory so it's possible for major components to be made at least in the same month.
I'm not suggesting they have to be. But if a number of major mechanical components on the car all come within a rather narrow time window, it's simply adds more data to the assertion.

Where I was going with respect to 2206's case is that although he may not be able to prove it, with careful documentation of his engine components and the various dates on car components, it is possible to assert to a future buyer or judge that the engine could come from the car.

Considering all the stamp kits available I'd be more likely to believe assembly/cast dates than just a stamped vin.

 

So many things to research

Just to continue the discussion

"Considering all the stamp kits available I'd be more likely to believe assembly/cast dates than just a stamped vin."

Let us not ignore the changing/altering of the casting ans assembly dates that take place also

Not as easy as just stamping a VIN on a blank block (restamping a stamped block... now that is a challenge but both the casting and assembly info can be alter without allot of difficulty

As for an unstamped K code.... let us all remember the somewhat common practice (especially with a used up block) of slapping on a set of K code caps on a non-K block. Lots of that has and is happening

No particular cars to mention or suggest ... just part of the discussion

 

A very complete, but rusty and tired "K" code motor AND original 4 speed transmission sold on e-bay last week for a little over $10,000. If I owned a '67 GT350 and I could get my hands on the original engine for my car, I personally would be willing to spend around $10,000 as I feel it adds that much to the value of the car and I feel the differenence in value between an "original engine" car and an replacement engine car will only get wider. In my opinion, many years ago if you were buying a GT350 for $10,000 or $20,000, you were most likely going to drive it and so no big deal as to what was under the hood. But the guys plunking down $100,000-$150,000 for a Shelby are now making an investment and have become much more discriminating as to what they will pay up for. Hang on to that motor and either use it in your car or hopefully you will come across the matching car at some point. Either way, I think you are very fortunate to have that motor in your hands.

 

My 67 GT 350 has the original VIN stamped block and 4spd trans. Block stamping date is 6J14 and there are lots of 6J parts on the car including the steering box, diff, trans. Body metal, some of the glass is Aug 66. I could go on, but basically the parts range from Aug-Sept of 66. I think an original VIN stamped block is easily worth 3K plus. A friend of mine here has the original block to Bob Kentworthy's Blue 66GT350. He offered it to him to buy two years ago and wan't even interested. I know I would have jumped at a chance like that. Anyways, enough said. Randy