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Holley Lemans 715 Problems

Discussion in '1965-1970 Shelby Mustang GT350 & GT500' started by philksr, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. philksr

    philksr Member

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    My Shelby Clone is running a new Holley 715 Lemans carb on a Blue Thunder Cobra 4V Manifold. I have tried every trick I can find to keep it from running rich. The plugs are covered with black soot and black soot comes out of the exhaust. I pull about 12 pounds of vacuum at idle and have the stock power valve (85) and the stock jetting (68 fronts, 78 rears). I can screw the idle screws all the way in and the engine still idles. The best idle comes with the screws about 1/2 turn out. My engine is a 302 with 351W heads, 10 to 1 CR, tri-y headers and a stock Hipo solid lifter cam. The cars idles and runs great except for the black soot. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
     
  2. rr64

    rr64 Well-Known Member

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    One potential problem is too much fuel pressure. The stock float settings go with stock fuel pressure which was somewhere around 5 psig (don't remember exactly but that is close). Many of the pumps today have springs that meter to way more than that like up to around 12 to 14 psig.

    If all else is correct I suspect excessive fuel pressure for the float settings.
     
  3. Texas Swede

    Texas Swede Well-Known Member

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    If the car still idles with the screws bottomed, there must be fuel
    leaking into the manifold. I had this problem on my 67 Shelby
    and it was the float level on the secondary side. Replaced the complete
    bowl with another one with correct float level and the problem disappeared.
    Another problem it could be is a broken power valve or misadjusted
    secondary plaps, i.e. they are a tard open and drags down fuel.
    Texas Swede
     
  4. philksr

    philksr Member

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    Thanks for the input. I am running a repro 1965 fuel pump with the canister. I will check the pressure and see if that helps. Do you know where I can find information on setting the floats on a 715? I know you bend the tabs, but I don't know the correct measurements and procedure.
     
  5. eljimb0

    eljimb0 Well-Known Member

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    Has it ever run well? What jets are in it. Was the carburetor off the shelf new when you got it. In my 289 I have 10:1 compression. 351 heads tri-y headers. cobra intake and the C7 le-mans cam. It cost me 300 dollars of dyno time to find out that the factory spec jets were the best ones.. 2 or 3 numbers in either direction was a big mess. My car has a lumpy 900 rpm idle but it runs like a champ all the way to 7 grand.
    these cars are a lot more fun when the run well...
    good luck!
    jimbo

    OOPs! ....sorry I just re-read your post and saw you mentioned the jet size.
    When I drive around town my exhaust pipes get black and sooty. When I get it out on the road and run the piss out of it it cleans up...
     
  6. rsimkins

    rsimkins Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, in order to set the floats on carburetors with "LeMans" bowls, you have to take the bowels off the carburetor, turn them upside down, and then set them so that they are parallel with the ground. The reason for this is that they do not have an externally adjustable needle and seat or a bowl sight plug. Before you go doing that, let's get that procedure confirmed by someone who has a rebuild instruction sheet handy.
     
  7. philksr

    philksr Member

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    The carb is about a year old and runs fine except for the black soot. The soot is not excessive but is noticeable on my garage floor when I fire it up. I had a Holman & Moody Lemans cam in the car until about a month ago. I had to drill some small holes in the front throttle plates to get it to idle with the Lemans cam. Since then, I switched to the HiPo cam and pop-riveted the holes closed. The power valve and jetting are stock.

    There is a chance that I have the secondary plates open a little too far and that may be the reason for the idle screw problem. Just looking for ideas at this point.

    The car idles great, pulls hard and does everything I want it to do. The soot is just a nuisance at this point.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2007
  8. rsimkins

    rsimkins Well-Known Member

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    I don't think pop-riveting holes in throttle plates is a good idea. If one of them gets loose, you could have a big problem as it gets sucked into the engine.
     
  9. philksr

    philksr Member

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    They are in very tight. I check them once in a while and they seem fine. Will probably change them out some time. Thanks..
     
  10. rr64

    rr64 Well-Known Member

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    I believe 1/2" for front float and 3/8" for rear float is the specification for GT350s. I made a permanent gage with one end 0.500 and and 0.375 on the other.

    Note: Using these float levels on an original Cobra (leaf spring cars) will create several problems as engines in Cobras sit in the chassis at a different angle than in a Mustang chassis.
     
  11. Texas Swede

    Texas Swede Well-Known Member

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    Dan is correct with the measurements on the float levels.
    Please remember though, that they are from the float to the
    top of the bowl. Many people makes the mistake to measure
    them from the bottom and the levels will be too low.
    See picture.
    Texas Swede
     

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  12. philksr

    philksr Member

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    Great!:) Thanks for the help. I'll check everything out this weekend.
     
  13. zrayr

    zrayr Well-Known Member

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    First, check the float level. If that doesn't help try the procedure below.

    I had a similar 715 problem several years ago, i.e. idlling with the low speed screws closed. It turned out to be the secondary throttle plates were open too far at rest. Try turning the secondary throttle plate adjustment screw until it is not in contact at all. Then open the idle screws to the stock setting. Finally, turn the secondary throttle plate adjustment screw until a reasonable idle is achieved.

    I doubt a stock style fuel pump is putting out over 6 lbs., but it is worth checking if the float level, etc. check out OK.

    Z. Ray
     
  14. philpughe

    philpughe Member

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    my cousins 67 shelby had this problem. brand new everything. no amount of tuning changed it. it was stopped when i took the manifold off and put sealant around every hole rather than just the water jackets as recommended. problem has now gone (sooted plugs and soot out the back). however, the fact you can put the screws all the way in and it still runs suggests fuel leaking
     
  15. woodsnake

    woodsnake Member

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    I know I'm a knoob, but I think it could also be a vacuum leak. I'll be interested to hear what the final problem was on this...
     
  16. philksr

    philksr Member

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    I took everything apart and reset the float level. The back float was set to 1/2", so I reset it to 3/8". The rear throttle plates are definitely closing and the slots are not exposed on idle. Everything seems OK. The car always blows a little water out the tail pipes until it warms up. The water still has black soot in it, but it could be left over from before. I ran the car with the Lemans cam for about a year and I'm sure it was running rich all the time. Maybe the soot is just left over? I'll run it this weekend and see if it clears up. The car doesn't get pushed hard much due to all the speed traps in our area.
     
  17. zrayr

    zrayr Well-Known Member

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    did you try turning out the secondary plate screw until the engine dies, etc. as I outlined above?

    Z. Ray
     
  18. woodsnake

    woodsnake Member

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    Have you tried using a vacuum gauge while tuning your car? Again, I realize I'm new here, but if the idle screws have no affect on the engine idle, then it sounds like un-metered air some where, or bad valve timing. A vacuum gauge would be a useful tool here I think.
     
  19. OVERRIDE

    OVERRIDE Well-Known Member

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    Check out Holleys web site and read about the power valve it said that if you turn the screws all the way in the car should die , If it stillruns then you power valve is bad. It also said to check you engine vacuum and it tells you how to see if you have the right power valve.

    Mike
     
  20. philksr

    philksr Member

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    My car is much better now. It idles a lot cleaner and the excessive black soot is under control. I didn't change all that much except for the rear float setting, but it seemed to have a big effect on the drivability as well. Thanks for all the great feedback and tips!:D
     

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