'65 and '66 GT350 values - stock vs. vintage race

I'm curious to see what people's opinions are about the values of stock(ish) driver '65 and '66 GT350's vs. vintage racers of the same year. For sake of discussion, let's assume we're comparing a nice driver (non-concours) car versus a well done vintage racer. I imagine each as follows:

Nice driver: probably not the matching number motor. Decent paint, with the usual minor chips here and there. Nice interior with signs of usage, but no neglect. Not a detailed undercarriage. Non-NOS replacement parts abound (distributor, solenoid, battery, etc). Something I would assume would be in the range of $175K-$200K for a '65 private party sale and $100K-$125K for a '66 private party (if you think those number are off base, by all means, put me in my place).

Well done vintage racer: First of all, it's real Shelby. Well sorted. Able to run on most, if not all, vintage circuits. All log books, etc. Obviously not an R-model, or a car of great historical significance (all vintage Shelby's are of historical significance to a certain degree... I think you know what I mean). Not a heavily modified car, i.e. no big fender flares, no modern drivetrain items... all vintage correct. An example of a well done racer as I imagine one would be Don Buck's car, for those familiar with it. Another would be the '66 GT350 that was for sale at Cobra Automotive.

Basically I'm hoping to start an apples to apples discussion (meaning similar condition and rarity) of how a car's status (street trim vs. vintage race trim) affects it's value. I'm really looking for the opinions of those "in the know" regarding the affect on value of a car in race trim.

Thanks,
Josh

 

Depending on the venue and sanctioning body, some races would not allow the entry of a Mustang done up as a vintage GT350 race clone, no matter how correct or true to the original it was. The historic races in Monterey have many GT350's each year, and depending on the honored marque, a fair number of real R-models (check out my member gallery for some pic's). The cars at Monterey must have a documented race history. One could not build a vintage racer that conforms with the rule books from a street Mustang and enter it there.

What I mean by no modern drivetrains, is that it would conform with some of the stricter sanctioning bodies. There are all sorts of limitations imposed on vintage race machines. I wholeheartedly agree that safety comes first, as do the sanctioning bodies, so you'll find more modern restraints and fire suppression, etc. What you won't find is modern intake manifolds, or modern aluminum heads, or tubular control arms, or trick new brakes (i.e. Brembo). Oversized vintage STYLE discs in the front and REALLY big drums out back. Toploaders are period race trannies, and you're correct in stating that almost every car has one. No modern 5 or 6 speed Richmond trannies, etc. No coil over rear ends, no carbon driveshafts. It's really a very complicated issue since the rules are so complicated, but what it boils down to is vintage speed technology with modern safety equipment. I'm basically trying to compare a vintage racer that has a level of "correctness" to it rather than look at something that's been hacked. A vintage racer is hard pressed to get 500 horsepower out of a 289 on race gas with the limitations they have on the parts they can use. Tommy Tuner can buy a stroker crate motor for a Mustang that'll run on pump gas and comes with a warranty with more HP than that.

I guess the point I was trying to make in this comparison is that I'd be interested in the difference between a street car and a vintage racer that conforms with the strictest sanctioning bodies. Some bodies can be pretty lenient, but it's my guess that the more period correct cars hold their value a little better.

 

Wow Charley... that's a great car. I would love to be able to run something like that on the track. You've definitely got some awesome cars. I want to be just like you when I grow up .

Shlby66, thank for the input. I've checked around a lot of publications and listings over the last few years, there's probably been a dozen or so vintage racers (to varying degrees of correctness) that I've seen for sale. The problem is, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the prices (some are listed below market value of a street car, some way above... and I'm not referring to cars driven by well known drivers... just cars with enough history to run the vintage circuits). The listed prices also don't tell me what they're actually selling for, and as you know there can be quite a difference. I'm really curious as to what the market will bear versus a street car. Not necessarily hard numbers, just a feeling of a little less, a lot less, the same, a little more, a lot more, etc. I was hoping that some of the people on the forums who have been involved in enough sales, either directly or indirectly, could provide input.

I'm not necessarily in the market for a vintage race car, but I love them just as much as I love a solid driver. I'm really just interested in the opinions of owners and experts in comparing the values of the two. If money weren't an object, I'd own a '65 street car and a '66 vintage racer and I'd run the hell out of it (very carefully). Money is an object, so the only "Shelby" I own is my 15 year old Golden Retreiver.

The cost to maintain and run the vintage racer is a whole other issue. As Charley points out, converting a street car to vintage race specs would definitely be a losing proposition. I'd also be stuck in a moral dilemna on that. If a car is already race prep'd and has a history, I'd love to have it, but I don't know that I could take a solid driver and convert it in good conscious. An ebay rust bucket might be another story, but I'm getting off topic

Thanks for the input guys.

Josh

 

Jimbo,

I get the sense that you feel that vintage racers built from authentic Shelby’s are a waste of a good car. You’re opinion is perfectly valid, and is no more or less right than mine, and I’m not trying to argue or debate, but let me just offer up some food for thought. A lot of the ’65 and ’66 GT350’s (probably more ‘65’s than ‘66’s in terms of percentage of production) were bought up by “privateers” who intended to race them from day one. Other cars did street duty for a few years and then were offered up for sale for about half of the original sticker. These cars presented a good opportunity for budget racers. Most of the cars that are legal to run all the vintage circuits have race histories dating back to the late 60’s or early 70’s. So if that car has spent the most significant portion of it’s life on the track, does it belong in street clothes now? Or should it be presented in the same fashion as it was back in it’s glory days? I don’t know which vintage body sanctions the Portland race, but I would bet more of those vintage racers are authentic GT350’s than you think. Most venues won’t accept clones (that’s not an attack on clones, just the rules).

Again, please don’t think I’m trying to dispute your opinion. I’m just offering up another point of view for you to consider.

Thanks again,
Josh