Shelby and SAAC at Odds

Actually these Ford documents provided SAAC with secondary copies of the paperwork Shelby had given SAAC previously.

 

Regarding the latest press release by Shelby....

Reading the latest press release by Shelby, I sympathize with some of
his points. For instance, if somebody paid for the Registry, and didn't get it (yet) they look at the first name on the title of the club and figure that guy whose name is first is responsible. And Shelby got tired of being responsible. At any point in doing a book (and don't forget Shelby knows about books; he did his own book back in '65) you have to "fish or cut bait, " set a deadline and stick to it. You can always do a revised edition a couple years later.

As regards historical pictures and such, one wonders if there was ever a written agreement regarding their return--it's hard to ask for stuff back if you can't prove what the terms were.

Shelby's asking for instantaneous registry info be available online might be difficult to administer for a club, considering you might have to have a person on duty 24 hours a day to keep such a registry up to date and who would pay that person's salary? Then too, with the huge price rise in CSX2000 and CSX3000 cars and the acquisition of many by high net worth individuals, one wonders how many Rob Waltons, etc. want their name and car info in a book for everyone to read? I predict as real AC Cobras get more precious, information on who owns them will become more private.

I think overall this dust-up comes down to SAAC (which for purposes of brevity I call the "old club") not being responsive to the various requests of the new Shelby marketing group who, after all, would be requiring any other entity starting a Shelby club to be adhering to the points covered in the latest press release.

What SAAC failed to ancticipate was that, once Shelby started making cars again with Ford, all things Shelby would be on a fast track, (assembly line?) that required no less than a full-tilt boogie marketing effort all the way along the line--from product design to showroom to owner cultivation (with a new fan club). Those who don't feel up to riding on that fast moving freight, are always welcome to decamp at the next station.....

 

SAAC has done a great job in documenting the history of the Shelby cars.

They deserve credit for making their Directories a very interesting read.

Remember when the missing Daytona Coupe was "found" in 2000/01?

That is a cool story and they documented it.

"Stranger than Fiction"

Loved every minute of that one!

MM

 

My personal preferance is to have the real book in my hands rather than online. Just like the online car magazines,I would much rather read the real printed version.

 

I second that....
Still not taking sides.
Vern

 

I have to agree with CHARLEY. I would sooner wait a few years for a new registry to come out. Having the book in front of you is quite different than looking on a computer. There's something about sitting down with fine print that you can't replace. If you need to know more info about a particular car, it just takes a little research. I feel the people at SAAC have done a good job, the forty dollars to me is well spent for a membership. I think it goes a little further than we think. Getting authentication info for free is worth a lot, not to mention the availablility of factory paperwork. I know on the GM side it's not that easy. Randy

 

I would bet that If SAAC put the Registry on line, (available only to its Members) AND published a Hard copy (Book), that the Book would still Sell out. I do think that it would be better if the Book was published every 5 Years instead of 10. A lot of the Cars are changing hands more often and it would be easier to keep up with the new information if the Book were published every 5 Years.
David.

 

I would agree with that!

Mike

 

David, In case you missed this, Rick Kopec posted his comments about a Registry on line.

"I'm not sure you'll ever see the registry on-line unless technology changes radically. Everyone knows that no matter how secure somebody makes a program, there is someone else who can hack into it and change things around. If that happened once, the credibility of the entire registry would be in question. There has already been a case where someone selling a Cobra (at a dealership) took a footnote from the printed registry, retyped it in the same font, eliminating some of the car's history which they didn't like, and then photocopied it, passing it off as what was in the registry. It might have worked except the Cobra registrar was asked about the car and he was able to provide the accurate footnote text. He went one step farther. He confronted the salesman at the dealership in front of the manager and told him, in no unceretain terms, that what he had done was unethical and had the car been sold, it would have been misrepresentation—which is against the law. Imagine of anyone could download parts of the registry, change whatever they wanted, and then print it or post it somewhere. Overnight everything would be in question. With a 1000-page book, it's a lot more difficult, So we trade convenience for security.

"One more thought: it's better for the registrars to know who is inquiring about certain cars because it gives them the opportunity to ask questions which might help them add to their files, or if someone is asking suspicious questions it might act like a warning bell. "
Rick Kopec

 

"I've received probably 250 telephone calls from people asking me to check on whether a particular Cobra or Mustang they wanted to buy is authentic. The next thing I hear from them is that Ken Eber has bought it. Where I come from, when there's that much smoke there's usually some sort of fire! "

...Does anyone here have the inclination to discuss this statement??

One advantage to having all the secret information "safely" tucked away
is having first shot at the sale... Maybe you send SAAC the info on a barn find.. and they tell you "ehh! ....probably not real. .. then cousin lefty shows up out of nowhere and lowballs the "fake" .... some of this "secret" information could be worth millions of dollars a year to somebody..

jimbo

 

Simple enough - has ANYONE reading this ever had that happen to them?
Know of anyone it has happened to?

No rumors or innuendo - provide facts if you have them or don't post an answer to that at all.

I know if that had happened to me there would have been hell to pay.

Mike

 

If he had done it 250 times don't you think we would all know about it ? I read that statement and took it as Shelby telling a lie to slant public opinion in his favor.

 

You can see C$' sparks from the ax grinding way down here in Texas!
I know of only one incident where I asked SAAC for verification. Was a car in Mexico being purchased by a friend here in Texas. Went down south, got all the info from the car and contacted Howard. He replied (very quickly!) and car was purchased and brought home. Simple. No hedging, not even a question about where the car was. Just a rapid response of pertinent information to determine provenance. IMHO, all this about Ken is just C$ throwing shi'ite to see what sticks.

 

Against posting online

I am against posting Cobra owners names on a register online for the simple reason that what you see on the internet at 12:05 pm can be changed by someone at 12:06. Whereas what you see on the printed page is there permanently until the next edition of the book comes out. Also i don't think there is sufficient time for those who would be listed (and I presume they are listed if they fill out the info form) to OK their listing if it is put online.

I don't think a club would be up to the task of putting up sufficient safeguards against hackers who would distort the information to their profit (such as eliminating mention that a car was crashed,for example). At least if it's in a book, there might be five people who know with the book who could scan the page about that car and e-mail it to you.

 

The trouble with verifying a find...

I used to be a rare car hunter. but more than once I had my claim
jumped. One time I took a Dutch friend (or should I say ex-friend) to look at a Chevy powered '54 Ferrari. It was a $40,000 car, owned by a guy not in the Ferrari community. I passed on it until I could find an interested buyer so when I found a buyer and went back the owner said "Oh, didn't you know your Dutch friend came back and bought it?" The car with a Ferrari engine was probably worth about $240,000.

So you have to be careful who you take to verify a car. If they have any access to ready cash and are known for buying and selling cars, you should be wary.

I would say the safest thing is to narrow down your choice of the car you want to a specific model, say 1966 Shelby, and document what makes those cars real (identifiers) 6 ways to Sunday so you can concentrate just on that.
And then make sure you have the money ready so you can pounce on it if it passes the identifiers. If you look at too many models, there is too much data to crunch quickly.

Also it pays to have a lot of reference material and know your marque. I bet the guy who bought the Pantera 7X at Monterey last August is pleased to find out that he owns a one off car the only 1975 Pantera brought to America by Ford, the one modified by Ghia to a design by Tjaarda. Yet there was no sign on the car signifying its special status so most people at the auction probably thought "hey look at the custom Pantera" not realizing this was a one off official Ford show car.

So as a result of getting burned by those I took along with me, and having a suspicion of car dealer/experts, I say do your own research.

One other tip: when I would buy,I would yank the car out by tow truck
immediately and head on down the road, renting a storage unit and putting it in until a car hauler could get there. That was to prevent the seller from letting his buddy switch the desirable parts on the sold car for less desirable parts....

 

Re: The trouble with verifying a find...

Why is he an "Ex-Friend" since you stated that you PASSED on it. Were you trying to find someone that would pay you a finders fee? Your other points are good ones. Do your own Research, get Funding BEFORE you seek out the Car you want and I would also say: If you are looking for a Shelby, buy a Registry and take it with you when you check out the car. You can find them on Ebay.
David.

 

Every car I looked at was a potential buy later on...

To clarify, not ex friend because I passed on it, ex-friend because
I was going to see the car at the behest of a New York man who bankrolled the cars I bought, which were resold at a profit. I always sent the New York buyer pictures but when he passed on it initially I put it in the "futures" bank. When my Dutch friend got a business card from the car owner I had no idea he would "shop" the car to Dutch Ferrari fans , one of whom obviously bankrolled him coming back to get the car. He didn't call me when he returned to California to buy the car, obviously ashamed that he was flat stealing a car out from under me that I had found through painstaking research of old Ferrari ads. So you have to be careful that whoever you take with you isn't going to go into business against you. I now know of a few rare cars but am careful not to tell anyone where they are, lest I beat myself up later that I "lost" a car on my futures list...though as I get older the probability I might buy them diminishes.

 

As far as not receiving something ordered....

I read on this or another Cobra forum some complaints from people who ordered their Register as long as five years ago and haven't received it. I looked up on Wikipedia (more or less accurate on a lot of things, what do you want for free?) on what they call that situation. Here is what they call it and I quote:

Mail fraud
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Mail fraud refers to any scheme which attempts to unlawfully obtain money or valuables in which the postal system is used at any point in the commission of a criminal offence. Mail fraud is a legal concept in the United States Code which can provide for increased penalty of any criminally fraudulent activity if it is determined that the activity involved used the United States Postal Service. As in the case of wire fraud, this statute is often used as a basis for a separate federal prosecution of what would otherwise have been only a violation of a state law. The concept of mail fraud is irrelevant in countries with non-federal legal systems: the activities listed below are likely to be crimes, but the fact that they are carried out by mail makes no difference to which authority may prosecute or the penalties which may be imposed

 

If you pay in advance for the registry you get a discount. If you pay in advance by 5 years, perhaps your money is better spent elsewhere. Is it taking to long? Yeah, I suppose, maybe, maybe not. You cantill the date is closer if you want. Is it fraud? Gimme a break, it's a complicated ever changing HUGE manual with a small number of issues compared to any normal 'book'. Will it be published? There is no doubt, well, unless CS figures out a way to stop it.

Cars being bought by people connected with the registry? Despicable, and 'normal' in many circles. I went to list my car with an Ad agency, BEFORE they even listed it someone in the agency made an offer, I accepted and sold the car. I was happy, didn't have to hastle with it. Was it ethical? Whatever, stuff happens when you run in the right circles with the right people. You think this would NEVER happen if Shelby controlled the registry? Get real, with the values involved the temptation would be immense Only a matter of time before someone IS going to 'jump the claim', there is no way around that FACT! Happens all the time, newspapers, car shows, classifieds or where ever. Is it wrong? Sure! Can you stop it? No way!

 

Some publications have rules against buying cars before ad hits publication

Not directly related since those applying to be in the Register are not
advertising their cars for sale, but I believe Hemmings or some other such publication has a rule no staff member (especially in classifieds) can buy a car that someone sends in an ad for before the publication hits the newsstands. I heard R & T had an employee once, when they were known for classifieds, who would buy Corvettes before they hit the ads and then sell them. She finally was forced to leave and opened up a Corvette emporium.