Shelby and SAAC at Odds

See, this a perfect example.

I truly have no agenda.

I have no connection whatsoever to Shelby, Shelby Autos, Shelby Licensing, any legal team, SAAC -- nothing whatsoever.

Just because I have strong opinions doesn't mean I have an agenda.

I admit I want to see Shelby prevail on this.

Why? Because, imo, it is his unquestionable right to prevail -- SAAC repeatedly violated their obligations under the agreement (my understanding) and cannot be permitted to continue. Simple.

I wish I could make you feel better and tell you I have some axe to grind or benefit to be had, etc. Simple truth -- I don't. Sorry.

Don't believe me? No problem, but you'd be 100% wrong. ...and that IS an indisputable fact based 100% in truth. I don't know how else to say it.

Peace....

 

This whole thing is bad for SAAC and bad for Shelby. There are no winners here. I find it very sad to see the Johnny come latelys (who didn't even know what a Shelby was until the second version Gone in 60 Seconds came out) badmouthing SAAC. They are misinformed and mesmorized by what one man has done to make these cars special. Did he do it by himself? Not really. Was he gifted at hiring the right people to get the job done? Yes. Has SAAC prolonged his legacy? Yes. Has he had a history of litigation against friends, colleagues, and competitors? Yes. Think before you make some post based only on emotion. Delve into the facts and make an informed decision about your beliefs. Oh, and if you do not own an original Shelby American product, don't tell me it is no big deal if a different entity holds my information. My information was sent to SAAC because I trust them. If that information is given to another entity, I should be the once who decides that.
Jon

 

I also would have to agree with Randall. I don't buy a car to look to sell it. I have my cars because they are my passion. I love to work on them, drive em, show em, enjoy em. It's just a great way of life for me. Carroll Shelby just happened to be the guy that built the cars that I have adored since my teenage years.

 

Yes, a perfect example...

When I look up your attributes in the "Bogus Spotter's Guide"

1. New member, joins right in the middle of a heated controversy
2. Selects a relatively topical or germane Username.
3. Takes a hard heels-dug-in position on one side of the controversy
4. Continues to harp on a single issue, refuting other member's opinions.
4. Denies he has a "dog in this hunt"
5. Does not sign posts with any name
6. Creates a blank Profile with a bogus zip code.
7. Posts without the casual style normally used among the other members. Articulate and grammatically correct.

Geez, you are on page one!

Of course, peace.
I just need to feel better about who you are and why you parachuted in to the discussion with such a hard line....
...if I want to put any credibility into your claims.

Nothing personal...just an observation.

 

"Investing" - my poor choice of words. Mearly pointing out that because of SAACs work, air cars/fakes are difficult to pass off as real for anyone willing to dig a little - and the happy side benefit is our cars retain a market value based on the original production numbers.

And dog-gone-it, they just look and sound COOL!

 

As in our own daily jobs, we can say nice things about the boss all year long. But, at the end of each year, when it's time for our review and we continue to not meet our goals or heed direction from our boss there will be reprocussions. We can be written up and after a few strikes we're gone. Carroll is still the boss...

 

Computerworks, this thread was frozen by Randall while I was rsponding to you. Unfortunately that response never got posted, so I'll briefly answer you now.

1) I was given the link by a GT500 owner in another forum where I have thousands of posts. I've also been a member of Shelby Public forum for a couple of years)

2) My username is the same most everywhere.

3,4) Eplained previously... no axe to grind whatsoever I just believe SAAC is dead wrong ...that's my opinion and I have every right to it as you do yours.

5) Didn's know I needed to sign posts with a name. My name is Dan. Does that make you feel better?

6) The Zip code is the code of the regional postal center that serves this area and is totally valid. I did not use our village zipcode because there are too many weirdos on the internet who want know your name and where you live <lol>

7) Thank you, re articulate -- I try. I also try to use good grammer so my posts are easier to read.

So, now do you feel more comfortable with me? Probably not -- and you likely never will because.

Just to be clear, I have no affiliation with any corporate entity or individual here, not Shelby, SAI, CSI, SAAC, or event he ASPCA <lol> The opinions I express are solely mine. Also, be aware that I responded to you itemized points not because I owe you any explanation whatsoever (just as CS does not owe SAAC), but because I felt your comments were genuine.

I don't know what you mean by me being on "page one." I hope it's a good thing! ;-)

Dan

 

The matter will be decided in court and forum talk wont solve anything, however, talk on this matter might still be healthy for the hobby in some weird way. It is free discussion like that on this and other threads that make the forums special.
Otherwise, no matter how hypocritical as it maybe for me to say it(after past events), lets keep the personal attacks out of this and keep it clean overall.
Thanks alot guys.
Vern

 

Alright guys, due to a recent trip across the www to saacforums...i have aquired a tidbit of information that is really rather interesting. Apparently, the people over at saacforums think that we are a heavily wieghted teamshelby biased site. They use an example that they tried to post a kopec response to a shelby press release, however, there was not deleted message deleted with this content. I am personally trying to stay nuetral on the matter and feel that the forum itself as an object should also stay equal opportunity and fair however, i feel that i am responsible as a moderator to post the Kopec comments for all to see as i feel we need to keep the forum as unbiased as possible. Of course, the forums members have a god given right to have and share their own opinions so discussion should go on as usaul. Many people over at saacforums have said that they wont post here because we are supposedly teamshelby biased and so in response to them, it is only good measure to post the kopec response. We want as big as a crowd as we can posting and we want that crowd to be as diverse as possible.
Here is the link.....
http://www.saac.com/press_release_112507.htm
The Absolute Best Regards,
Vern

 

I thought that the Kopec reply was here somewhere already, but a link is good as well.
(People) believe what they want to believe, and even if they see the response will harp on something else.

Mike

 

I believe the 2 posts have been made with the kopec reply. However, i just wanted to put it in plain view as people at saacforums.com were speculating that the posts had been deleted...which they were not.
Hope all is well with you mike,
Best REgards,
Vern

 

Why post that link and help SAAC air their 'story' further?

Daltondavid posted a link earlier in this thread to the saacforums. I just checked over there to see what current discussion was like. Looks like they still are bent on dis'ing CS any way the can. What is the purpose of that? Is it possible that they don't understand the difference between SAI (Shelby Autos) and CSI Carroll Shelby International. That is, I'm trying to understand whether it's sheer ignorance as opposed to mean-spiritedness that would cause statements (blue link above) and "scam"-calling, etc. And how is it that SAAC permits it's members to call CSI a scam?!! It appears some over there don't know that Amy is president of SAI and not affiliated with CSI?

If it was up to me (and it's not <lol>) I would not help that organization air their combative Shelby-bashing views. This site and others attempt to genuine moderate with an open mind (witness Vern's post and rationale above as an example) but somehow SAAC permit posts calling Shelby a "scam" are permitted to remain. Does that site even have moderators (I assume so).

Btw, when I originally read the Kopek letter some time ago on another website I immediately saw it as a fine example of carefully crafted pre-litigation spin doctoring and I posted that assessment on that website. My opinion has not changed. I don't see that Shelby Autos, CSI or any other Shelby venture/entity have any obligation whatsoever to help SAAC air their pre-lit mind-games. Imo, there's a huge difference between fairness and being someone's pawn ...and no one should confuse the two.

Before I get attacked again by the SAAC 'henchmen' on this Shelby site who have tacitly accused me of having some ulterior motives for expressing my own opinions on this and related Shelby topics, let me just reinforce and reiterate that I have no business interest of ANY kind in SAAC or any Shelby entity or any other automotive entity of any kind. I merely was brought up knowing the difference between right and wrong and after 30+ years as a planner r&d-manager and strategist for a Fortune 20 company I not only have learned to quickly recognize spin but to fully understand how damaging it can be.

Just my personal opinions.

Dan

 

I am so sick of all the cra* being slung from both sides of the fence. Let the lawyers hash it out and lighten the cash from both sides. To paraphrase a long ago Presidential campaign slogan...IT'S ABOUT THE CARS!!!

 

I COMPLETELY AGREE. I've just about stopped reading either Shelby forum because all the posts are speculation, misinformation and pseudo-legal opinions. The Shelby forums were good sources of restoration information; let's get back to that. Even Becker-bashing would be more welcomed.

Please if anyone goes to the AZ auctions, give us some first hand impressions of the cars. thanks.

 

Are you talking about Russo and Steele Scottsdale? Some nice featured cars ;-)

 

Spin doctoring by SAAC? SAAC can't hold a candle to Carroll when it comes to spin. He has shown time and again he is the best there ever was when it comes to spin, and thats a compliment! As a coach, he is able to put one heck of a team together, 'back in the day' and now. In that respect he is unequaled within the automotive community.

 

From what I have read, meaning, The posted Letter from Shelby's Attorney's, SAAC's Press Release Responce & Shelby's Responce...... PLUS what I know about the Contracts that Shelby issues, I think that if SAAC were to:

(01) Apologize,
(02) ASK what it would take to keep the License,
(03) Swallow their pride, for once, grovele and beg for forgiveness,
(04) Conform to the original Contract as well as pay any fines/penalties,
(05) Own up to their misstakes,
(06) Correct their misstakes,
(07) Accept any changes to a new Contract that Shelby adds,
(08) Abides to the new Contract with out hesitant,
(09) Give Copies of EVERYTHING they have, <Past, Present & Future>,
(10) Keep Shelby up-dated Quarterly of what is going on with SAAC.

I believe the Two sides could make up and become one with the universe if SAAC really tries. YES, I am sure many of you are going to Bash Me for this, but, I just want you to think about this first. My list might be a "LITTLE" harsh, but what is more important, Pride or Licensing. SAAC can loose a LOT, including Money because of Pride. If it were me, I would go "Above & Beyound" what is needed to keep the license. The contract that SAAC had with SLI has pretty much the same provisions that my contract had with SLI (Amy B confirmed that), so I know a little about what I am saying. I really want to see SAAC & Shelby work things out with out the Courts involvement.
David

 

Even if it were possible to follow your list, David, I don't think that would solve the fundamental problem. Which, I've come to believe, is two differing views on how the registry should be done, what to include, what to leave out, it's basic structure. I'm afraid these two groups of head strong and willful folks simply cannot agree on the basic format of a registry. Thus a parting of the ways appears to be the only viable solution.

Should Eleanors be included? Popcorn? Chilli? Other products? Realizing that ANY product included within the registry will add 'value' to the product will inclusion then be for sale at a price? Maybe thats OK, after all it's just business, at least to some, for others maybe it's more about passion. Potential dollars at stake do cloud the issue. Who would have the final say on what to include, what to leave out? It's doubtful a 'vote' would be taken, it would be Carroll who makes that call, end of story, and thats his right. It is also the right of SAAC to make a call as to what they feel should be included. Looks like two registeries shapeing up, I don't see an alternative at this point.

Licensing rights do not automatically mean a registry can or can't be done by anyone who chooses. Licensing rights may or may not lead to significant income, for either side. While it's a blow to SAAC, it's does not mean the end of SAAC.

 

I think you're right-on, David! Sometime a double-dose of humility and an earnest desire to right any wrongs could (and possibly would) go a long way. That certainly would have been my approach too if I were SAAC.

I was even thinking that, had that happened, it might have made a lot of sense to pull SAAC into the Shelby organization directly, not only to defacto validate the value of the work they've done but also to gain the level of control I suspect Shelby wants (and deserves) over their Intellectual Property.

Dunno if it's too late for that now -- if it isn't I would hope both sides would pursue a mending IF there can be a genuine meeting of the minds and an absolute recognition of Shelby's rights. At least that would be the 'ticket' for me if I were Shelby (again, I have no skin in this in any way at all) -- i.e. if I saw a genuine and non-combative desire to close the rift for the benefit of all involved (Shelby, SAAC and the car owners), tightening the relationship might actually be an alternative to severing it.

I still think, based on what we know, Shelby had no choice but to call in their cards (just my opinion) if for no other reason but to make them comply with the terms (else possibly risk losing the ability to enforce the agreement in the future) at a minimum, and possibly permit them to recapitulate in earnest.

Who knows, maybe this all can be worked out if SAAC can down an usavory slice of humble pie and put the cars first as they seem to urge everyone else to do.

Dan