Factory Louvered Hoods on 1967 Gt500's

I totally agree it's possible that a hood could have been replaced due to an accident. As for Dave Matthews, he's been very helpful to me and has all my respect. It's my lack of knowledge of the hierarchy of SAAC and exactly where Dave falls in the management chain. In the future I won't refer to him as a rep. Thanks

 

My '67 shelby gt500 #1214 has a louvered hood. I'm the 3rd owner of this car. Bought it in '83. The 2nd owner bought this car in '72 with a louvered hood.I remember seeing this car running around town and bugged the guy to sell it to me[thats how i got it]. I can't find the original owner, but when I went to strip the car of its paint it had its original night mist blue paint under the repaints. The car had no sign of any damage to the front glass. No air.

 

As long as you are not showing the car in concours you will not have a problem. In 1972 the car was already 5 years old and things could have happened to it from previous owners. Look at all the 05 and 06 Ford GT's that have been wrecked with under 50 miles on the odometer. Back in the 60's and early 70's it was common for a shop to replace a entire hood rather then fixing minor fiberglass damage. Fiberglass repair was kind of a specialty back then and not every shop knew how to work with fiberglass. I will not go as far as say it couldn't happen but it would a exception and not the rule. At the end of 1967 production some non air cars received louvered hoods probably as a means of using up existing inventory rather then have the regulars hoods made up special to finish production. If you don't plan on showing your car in a concours type event t I wouldn't give it another thought unless it bothers you. If you wanted to ever show your restored car in one of the three main Shelby concours venues the burden of proof would be on the owner to show provenance for a louvered hood on a non A/C car especially one in the VIN number range of yours . Since restoring the cars as close as it was delivered to the first customer new is the point of the current accepted guidelines questioning unusual deviations from the norm is done to preserve the heritage of the marque and not to try and aggravate enthusiasts . Owner recollection is not currently accepted as provenance for a deviation from the norm.

 

I hear what your saying, but I'm counting this one to human error. I know that its not fact, but when you have humans doing a job that should be straight forward,.."Stuff happens"! I've seen a '67 Shelby with "S.O.S."in factory seam sealer on the front lower rad support of a GT500 car that start out as a K-code and not a Q-code. '67 Shelby's with one side scoop with a functional collar for an air duct and the other side blocked off. Factory C-code mustang [289]with the cars vin stamped into a F-code [302].

 

Replacement hood very well may have been generated by warranty work from customer (or dealer) complaint about hood/fiberglass fitment/quality problems.... even before delivery.

 

I have asked SAAC this question more than once. SAAC says only AC cars came with louvered hood. Although I do believe louvered hoods were intended for AC cars, I can tell you some non-AC cars left the Shelby plant with them installed. I am not the original owner of my car #1224 but I have confirmed with the original owner it came with a louvered hood. SAAC insist my car #1224 came without the louvered hood and my hood must have been an over-the-counter replacement. When I asked SAAC to explain why the Super Snake has a louvered hood (and everybody knows it was built without air), the reply I get from SAAC is...huh . Most 67 GT500/350 knowledgeable folks will tell you that the Shelby plant would use what they had available to meet delivery dates.

 

Interesting that our cars are only 10 apart with the same hoods?

 

Is your car a non-AC car? I'm restoring my car now. How complete is your car? I have lots of things I would like to confirm.

 

Non AC. car. you can email me at fordcounrty@look.ca Chris

 

The engineering drawings clearing state the louvered hoods are for air cars only . I don't know who you talked to at SAAC but it wasn't Dave Mathews the SAAC 67 Shelby registrar, Keeny Beers SAAC head concours judge pro temp for 67 Shelby or myself . My credentials include -SAAC rep, SAAC Shelby concours judge,SAAC 67 Shelby head concours judge, MCA gold Shelby concours judge,Team Shelby head concours judge.
If you really would like the facts or the input about 67 Shelby's from the seasoned veterans then be sure you are speaking to one of us three. We have the honor of representing SAAC and it's members in this regard. This is a friendly place and the statement you made quoting someone at SAAC that has to do with keeping the flame of 67 Shelby knowledge alive saying " huh" in regards to the hood aspect of the experimental supersnake is ludicrous and more then a little insulting. This subject has been discussed before and yes it is known that some non A/C car louvered hoods did occur however the burden of proof is on the owner to substantiate that occurrence with legitimate proof in the form of factory paperwork ,old dated photos etc. The personal recollection of a past owner is considered hearsay. It is your car do what you want . If you want to bring someone around to your way of thinking provide reasonable proof. Making insulting unfounded statements towards the people here AND at SAAC who have made a commitment to volunteer help in time and knowledge for the Shelby enthusiasts just to justify the way something appears on your car is not only the wrong way to go about it but is NOT honorable . Bob Gaines

 

Bob, your comments are unprofessional and unnecessary. I would like to ask you to take a few moments and look at previous posting within this thread and you will see I have discussed this subject before and you submitted a reply in a very similar fashion. Since this is the second time you have done this to me, it seems you enjoy flexing your muscles. Now...To be perfectly clear it was Dave that told me and I quote "non AC cars received louvered hood near the end of production and louvered hood were sold as over-the-counter replacements". I have a personal e-mail from Dave stating such. In fact, I have exchanged several emails with Dave and respect him a great deal. My intent is try and confirm that non-AC cars did in fact receive louvered hood well before the end of production. And based on information and comments by many honorable people this appears to be true. Your suggestion that I am trying to cause problems is offensive. While I respect your credentials and knowledge, I am not impressed by you or your rush to judgment.

 

The trouble with factories is they are full of factory workers. Factory workers of all levels do what they must to make it through the day and keep product moving. Juggling cost, schedule and quality everyday has challenges especially when you have "almost in time" delivery from suppliers. When behind master schedule there are some things a go-getter production boss is not going to worry about and one would be an engineering drawing that did not affect quality. Would you want to point to that drawing when the out going car hauler is half empty and a day late and the Old man wants to know why? And that's assuming anyone in the action ever saw the drawing. I was not there but 1967 Shelby American was probably one of the most “shoot from the hip get it done anyway you can” car factories in American history. What they did in a few months is amazing. It seems more fair minded that the judges should prove the part is not original. The hoods were there, the cars were there and so were the factory workers. Nature probably took its course.

Besides, this hobby above anything else is supposed to be fun. When splitting hairs in a gray area, shouldn’t we go the direction that makes the most people happy? Who gets off by busting someone for not having their 1967 hood papers?

 

Excellent insight into the challenges of managing the day-to-day production of an assembly plant. And I couldn't agree more with your comments about our hobby should be all about fun. Thank you for your support and thanks to all of you that have sent me private emails as well.

 

Hi to all on this thread! A few breif points..If your car is not a factory engineering car,nor do any records/paperwork exist showing that a hood was replaced under warranty,it will be and should be a deduction of points if it is entered in a concours class,it is that simple.If you do not understand rules and guidelines or how and why they are formed then choose any of the other classes and enjoy your weekend! This is the same for all types of competition,so you need to make the choice-and keep it real fun!This is not a time to battle within this hobby.

Have a Happy New Year !!
P.D.

 

Tom,
I agree with 100% with Bob Gaines. The hoods were designed for the AC cars and it is my opinion that other than a few factory engineering cars, the louvered hoods installed on non AC cars were most likely due to accident damage. It is up to the owner to prove with documentation that they have a special case.
As you and I have discussed, it is not surprising that some components on your car could have been added later on in it's life.
Dave Mathews 67 Shelby Registrar

 

Dave,

Thanks for taking the time to reply and I'm sure Bob and others appreciate your support as well. As for me, I will drop this particular topic and focus on something else.

 

Judging and judged shows are not about making people happy or a popularity contest JMHO its about rewarding owners/restorers that do a good job.

Not sure if all parts of the hobby are fun (for everyone) though it can be rewarding

Itss allot of work, effort, time and dollars for much of the process

 

I can see the two sides of the fence on this one. SAAC asks that cars with air have louvered hoods and cars with out to have flat hoods for their concours events. SAAC needs rules to keep things undercontrol, or we could end up with cars showing up with for example, firestone tires or '66 mustangs seats or a host of other things that owners will say that their cars came with. Guide lines need to be in place, agreed. But thats not to say yours or mine or any one that has an original louvered hood came that way from SA. As much as its possible that it may have been changed out at a dealership because of fit issuses or any other problem holds the same possiblity that it came from SA that way in the first place. The fact is that its impossible to prove one way or the other [by SAAC or by the owner]unless you or SAAC followed the car 24/7 from day of birth. I for one can live with my findings after talking to past owners of my car, folks that worked at the dealership that my car came from and what I've discovered in the restoration. thanks,Chris

 

Just to put this in context and to educate the rest of us I was wondering what the concours rules were for 65 and 66 cars and the various hoods they had. Are the 67 rules tighter?

The longest thread I have ever seen on this board is in regard to the dozens of 67 production changes and irregulaties. I assume a lot of concours leeway is given to 67 owners on all these subjects. Why not extend this to louvered hood owners, provided the hoods are original fiberglass and not reproductions.

It would be shame to take points away from a car because of the way Shelby American built it. How can you ever be certain on this subject?

 

I always thought my GT350 had it's louvered hood from the factory- even have a picture of it in 1973 with the louvered hood. Then the original owner volunteered that he dropped something on the hood and cracked it - in 1972. Says he didn't know any better and called Shelby (wheels) to get a replacement hood and actually talked to C.S.. At any rate, all they had available was the louvered hood, so that's what he got.
It always kills me when someone says "It has had the same (insert part here) for thirty years!" as if that should be all the provenance necessary. OK, but the car is 40 years old! Do the math!