Jon If you will go back and read any of "my" last few notes you'll see that I h= ave not made negative comments about Rick and the SAAC national other than = to point out that the SAAC national is not an organization that I would con= sider as a traditional car club where the directorship is elected. In fact = if you go back and read my past few notes you'll see I have given credit an= d praise to what the organization has done. I have not been to many SAAC na= tional conventions but my best memories about SAAC and their national conve= ntions were SAAC 5 and SAAC 8 in Dearborn. These were some great events. Th= ey were more balanced and more like a convention where the car show was the= central focus of the event. Racing was not the prime focus of these two SA= AC conventions. Today the SAAC nationals are much different where vintage a= nd open track racing seems to be more of the emphasis than the car show par= t of it. Also, I don=92t understand where people making comments about where they th= ink holding a SAAC national convention would be good idea can be considered= negative thing either.=20 Will the SAAC and MCA ever do another national event again? Sure it would b= e nice if they did, but I my opinion I doubt it will happen for reasons alr= eady expressed in a previous note. I don=92t see my opinion as being negati= ve or wining; it is just my point of view. Jon if you want to wrap yoursel= f up in a red white and blue Shelby American banner and accuse people of wi= ning then that is your prerogative, but I feel you are off base. =20 The SAAC national organization is what it is and they do what they wish to = do. Is that good or bad? I don=92t see what they do as being negative and t= hat is my opinion. There are others here on the list that have been put off= by the national SAAC and their actions and they no longer wish to associat= e themselves with the national SAAC. Then there are others who could care l= ess either way but have found that they get more value for their money else= where and are no longer members. Can someone be a fan of Carroll Shelby and= his creations and not be a fan of Rick Kopec at the same time? Can someone= love and adore the Shelby Mustangs built from 1965-1970 but not also loath= e the Sanderson built Shelbys?=20 Most Cobra and Shelby Mustang owners are not likely to race their cars on t= he track. Weren=92t most of the vehicles from Shelby American street cars t= o begin with? Should a SAAC national convention be so heavily geared toward= vintage racing as they are today? I don=92t know, but there are many aroun= d who remember it being quite different today than what it used to be durin= g the SAAC 5 and SAAC 8 days. SAAC 5 and 8 were really great events in my o= pinion, but change is inevitable. Is change good or bad? Or is it just a re= lative thing? Jon you may say what you want but discussing it here and expr= essing one=92s opinion should not be considered bad or negative. It=92s jus= t their point of view. Jim Seisser -----Original Message----- From: jonlee@wt.net Sent: Jul 10, 2005 5:15 PM To: Ronald Robertson <ronald.robertson@sympatico.ca>,=20 =09Shelby List <shelbymustang@carmemories.com> Subject: Re: SAAC 32 Ron: Fact is stated once...whinning is when it is repeated it over and over like= this thread has been. Just look at all the repeat commentators. That says = something right there. Plus....I dont think its=20 fair that you and all the other guys state one side without the other side = representing itself. Also, constructive criticism is left to those who can make good judgements = and bring those issues to organization/individual and not open public forum= .. Besides, I thought this list was about cars and=20 education... not criticism of someone or an organization. I dont want to be rude on this list but if you don't want to race and you p= refer to have fun, I know where some theme parks are. They seem to have eve= rything for everyone. I know SAAC "aint" no theme=20 park. =20 jon Quoting Ronald Robertson <ronald.robertson@sympatico.ca>: - Jon: - And yours is the other side of the story and a very valid one. - But let me comment on a few of your assertions. - SOME not most SAAC members like to race their cars. Look at the small num= ber=20 - of Shelbys on the track and you will find there is a minimum number who w= ant=20 - to and can afford to risk their Shelbys on the race track. And the others= =20 - are NOT trailer queens. I showed my GT-500 in Division 2. It is NOT a=20 - trailer queen. I drove it to Charlotte (625 miles one way) and other show= s=20 - that are lesser distances. So I do not have a trailer queen and I don't r= ace=20 - it. I'm stuck, with hundreds of other owners in the middle and I got to t= ell=20 - you, there ain't much there for us. - Rick and the boys work hard to have fun their way - racing. And that is n= ot=20 - wrong, but it leaves out hundreds of Shelby owners who have no desire to= =20 - race. - I don't think anyone is slinging stones at Rick - they are just stating= =20 - facts and that is not whining. - But one has to face facts; things do not get better if everyone sits back= =20 - and says and does nothing. Constructive criticism is what is needed so it= =20 - can be evaluated and, where deemed possible, to affect change. That appli= es=20 - to SAAC and to the USA as well. There is no doubt that Rick and company h= ave=20 - done a good job with SAAC but unless ideas are thrown out and considered,= =20 - there will be no progress. - Respectfully. - Ron -=20 - ----- Original Message -----=20 - From: <jonlee@wt.net> - To: "STAN SIMM" <SSIMM@triad.rr.com>; "Shelby List"=20 - <shelbymustang@carmemories.com> - Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 2:56 PM - Subject: Re: SAAC 32 -=20 -=20 - > Stan, Jim and all you guys who have thoughts about SAAC: - > - > - > I have listened to what you have said and I understand the frustrations= =20 - > you have about why SAAC doesnt do this and doesnt do that, but whinning= on=20 - > the list does not help enthusiasts enjoy these race - > cars for which SAAC understands and fully appreciates. Alot of its memb= ers=20 - > are racers who love to race and push these Shelbys to the limit. Rememb= er=20 - > that it was "RACING" that gave fame and - > recognition to these Shelbys...not beauty queens. - > - > I must attest that when I first joined this group, I thought just like = you=20 - > guys. Why dont they do this and that. Where is this and where is that. = I=20 - > sounded like a little kid who didnt get what he - > wanted so I either complained or end up being very negative. - > - > Come on!!! Give them some credit. Rick and those guys work hard to have= =20 - > fun...AND what they do must be right because it has endured the test of= =20 - > time. I dont see many organizations last beyond 10 - > years. Rick is the leader of that group because of one thing, he loves= =20 - > these cars and he shows it by "racing" just like President Bush leading= =20 - > this country - because he loves this country and wants - > what is best. A lot of people attack him and even his own group but you= =20 - > know what, he made it as President twice just like Rick Kopec has been = the=20 - > leader all this time....SAAC needs a strong - > leader...not a United Nations representative. - > - > Im sure Rick is aware of the future and SAACs best interests but at thi= s=20 - > time those issues are not for us to decide. They are Ricks and all thos= e=20 - > guys who helped him. We must support them the best - > way we can so that we can preserve the Shelby heritage. To me that is= =20 - > important. - > - > God Bless Rick and everyone who has helped make Shelby the heritage wha= t=20 - > it is today !!!! - > - > peace out - > - > - > jon - > - > 65-350 - > 67-350 - > 67-500 - > 67-500 - > - > - > - > Quoting STAN SIMM <SSIMM@triad.rr.com>: - > - > - Well put, Jim. Personally, I'm more than somewhat concerned about SA= AC=20 - > and - > - where it's headed. There is no doubt that, in the grand scheme of=20 - > things, - > - SAAC is a very small organization. They need money-making events to= =20 - > stay - > - afloat , offer the membership the usual quarterly newsletter, one ann= ual - > - magazine and fund the "inner circle". They're obviously up-beat about= =20 - > the - > - new GT500 because the potential numbers will add to the coffers. But= =20 - > what - > - I'm more concerned about is the fact that it really is a closed=20 - > corporation, - > - a "good-old boys" network. Are they thinking about when Kopec, Pardee= & - > - Ebers are gone? Who's going to pick up the torch and carry on? Who'= s=20 - > going - > - to be capable to do so? - > - As an aside, the MCA is not really that large an organization eith= er.=20 - > I - > - doubt there's more than 20,000 members total. Considering the age of= =20 - > the - > - club and the preponderance of Mustangs, they should have 100,000=20 - > members. - > - Hell, BMW CCA has close to 80,000 members and their monthly magazine= =20 - > rivals - > - R&T or Car & Driver. They put on more DE events across the country i= n=20 - > one - > - month than SAAC and MCA does in one year! All that w/o any Factory - > - backing...They're a totally independent organization, formed back in = the - > - early '70's, just like MCA. - > - But MCA is trying. They now have an active DE committee and, while= =20 - > their - > - events aren't large by any degree of the imagination, they're catchin= g=20 - > on. - > - I agree with you: By the time Mustang's 50th rolls around, MCA won't= =20 - > need - > - SAAC. - > - Regards, Stan - > - ----- Original Message -----=20 - > - From: "ecj" <ecj@peoplepc.com> - > - To: <ShelbyMustang@carmemories.com> - > - Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 10:02 AM - > - Subject: Re: SAAC 32 - > - - > - - > - I believe that SAAC and MCA working together for the 40th was at the= =20 - > request - > - of Ford Motor Company. Ford Motor Company was the major sponsor of th= e - > - event. - > - - > - Ford keeps making new Mustangs every year. That being the case, the M= CA=20 - > has - > - new and young owners coming in to the club all the time. People with = new - > - Mustangs are a lot more interested in trying out an open track event = in - > - their cars as opposed to people with 30-40 year old cars. (Unless the= =20 - > car is - > - set-up as a race car or open track car.) The demographics of the MCA = can - > - change, evolve and "grow" over the years in the ways that the SAAC=20 - > national - > - is not able to. - > - - > - "For the most part" the national SAAC is focused on the vehicles buil= t=20 - > by - > - Shelby American from 1964-1970. Unless you count the new Ford GT and = the=20 - > up - > - coming 2007 Shelby GT500, SAAC won't be adding lots of new people and= =20 - > their - > - cars very soon. If it weren't for the popularity of vintage racing=20 - > wouldn't - > - one have to consider the national SAAC an "antique" car club? How doe= s=20 - > the - > - national SAAC recognize the Shelby Series 1 cars and all these other= =20 - > pseudo - > - Shelbys being built? How do the regular SAAC members feel about these= =20 - > new - > - pseudo Shelbys? Will the 1964-1970 faithful national SAAC members ope= nly - > - accept recognition of these Series 1 Shelbys and pseudo Shelbys or wi= ll=20 - > it - > - alienate them? - > - - > - I don't think one has to necessarily rely on the SAAC national for a= =20 - > good - > - track event. There are a lot of local SAAC chapters and other brands = of - > - local clubs that put on some great track events. I have been very=20 - > impressed - > - with the SVTOA, (SVT Owners Association) and with all the track event= s=20 - > they - > - have been putting on. When the Mustang turns 50 lets see who does wha= t=20 - > for - > - that celebration. I doubt there will be a need for a "joint" SAAC and= =20 - > MCA - > - event in the future in my opinion. Any other opinions? - > - - > - - > - Jim Seisser - > - - > - -----Original Message----- - > - From: A Lupton <ALUPTON@nc.rr.com> - > - Sent: Jul 9, 2005 11:28 PM - > - To: James G Cowles <shelbyparts@msn.com>, info@nvsaac.com, - > - ShelbyMustang@carmemories.com - > - Subject: Re: SAAC 32 - > - - > - It would seem that SAAC and MCA could work together as they did at th= e=20 - > 40th - > - to get the best of both worlds. SAAC can obviously run an open trac= k=20 - > event - > - and MCA has the talent to organize and judge a car show. Personally = it=20 - > has - > - been obvious that SAAC is about open track and that alone. It used t= o=20 - > be - > - better balanced with street cars passing tech to run at speed but fro= m=20 - > the - > - looks of the roster at SAAC 30, it takes a full out team approach to - > - participate at a SAAC open track event. I regret that is the directi= on=20 - > that - > - has been taken since I personally appreciate all the cars from SA, ev= en=20 - > the - > - race cars at rest. Right now my renewals for SAAC are done out of=20 - > respect - > - for the marque and not out of a lot of enthusiasm for the club. I fi= nd=20 - > that - > - MCA is much more balanced. Again, the SAAC/MCA co-host idea might k= eep=20 - > the - > - faithful from straying.. - > - - > - m - > - ----- Original Message -----=20 - > - From: "James G Cowles" <shelbyparts@msn.com> - > - To: <info@nvsaac.com>; <ShelbyMustang@carmemories.com> - > - Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 1:18 PM - > - Subject: Re: SAAC 32 - > - - > - - > - > SAAC has been very clear that they dont like car shows. The car s= how - > - > people have always been shoved aside for the race car group. I hav= e - > - > donated the car show trophies the last few years trying to keep the - > - > concours going. If you get right down to it, the car show guys are= =20 - > trying - > - > to keep their cars the way they were when new thus keeping the Mar= que - > - > preserved. I tried to do that with my Cobra and still race it once= in - > - > awhile but now they want all this modern stuff for safety so i qui= t - > - > racing it - > - > - > - >>From: "NVSAAC" <info@nvsaac.com> - > - >>To: <ShelbyMustang@CarMemories.com> - > - >>Subject: Re: SAAC 32 - > - >>Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:56:45 -0700 - > - >> - > - >>Ron, - > - >> - > - >>I did see Charley Lillard's - 1965 GT350 # 76 - that did get a Gold= =20 - > award. - > - >>Congrads to Jim Cowles for the restoration work on the car. - > - >> - > - >>It was out there at the popular vote on Sunday morning as well. - > - >> - > - >>So that is at least 2 concourse cars out there... - > - >> - > - >>Jim - > - >> - > - >>----- Original Message ----- - > - >>From: "Ronald Robertson" <ronald.robertson@sympatico.ca> - > - >>To: "Calvin Sanders" <calvins@highrpm.net>; "Shelby Mustang" - > - >><shelbymustang@carmemories.com> - > - >>Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 8:05 AM - > - >>Subject: Re: SAAC 32 - > - >> - > - >> - > - >> > Calvin: - > - >> > Good comments about the scarcity of Shelbys on the track. But if - > - >>eventually - > - >> > SAAC events have no Shelbys on the track, where does that leave = the - > - >> > SAAC - > - >> > conventions, which are really a celebration for the "drive fast,= =20 - > turn - > - >>left" - > - >> > group? The concours show is not a self sustaining event and the= =20 - > last - > - >>popular - > - >> > vote show at Michigan saw about 12-15 brave souls who weathered = the - > - >> > rain - > - >> > show up. Ours was the only concours car, despite the "request" t= hat=20 - > ALL - > - >> > concours cars MUST appear so that participants and spectators to= =20 - > the - > - >>popular - > - >> > vote show could see them. - > - >> > I understand California was different. Could that mean the death= =20 - > knoll - > - >>for - > - >> > SAAC conventions in the East? - > - >> > Should be an interesting future if the trend continues. - > - >> > Ron - > - >> > - > - >> > ----- Original Message ----- - > - >> > From: "Calvin Sanders" <calvins@highrpm.net> - > - >> > To: "Shelby Mustang" <shelbymustang@carmemories.com> - > - >> > Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 10:39 AM - > - >> > Subject: Re: SAAC 32 - > - >> > - > - >> > - > - >> > > On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, Ronald Robertson wrote: - > - >> > > - > - >> > >> The thread on where SAAC 32 should be has been very interesti= ng.=20 - > But - > - >>if - > - >> > >> anyone thinks they can influence Rick on where this will be= =20 - > held, - > - >>they - > - >> > >> should change their drinking water. In summarizing the commen= ts=20 - > so - > - >>far, - > - >> > >> it appears there are a variety of reasons why some tracks wor= k=20 - > and - > - >>others - > - >> > >> do not. - > - >> > > [......] - > - >> > >> 3. The lack of a host hotel near the track appears to be a sm= oke - > - >>screen, - > - >> > >> a non issue. Witness Lime Rock, Michigan, Nashville. All hote= ls=20 - > were - > - >> > >> between 1 and 2 hour's drive from the track. - > - >> > > - > - >> > > I think SAAC 7 was the first one where the hotel was a distanc= e=20 - > from - > - >>the - > - >> > > Hotel. That was also the first east coast event with an open= =20 - > track. - > - >> > > We - > - >>ran - > - >> > > at Pocono and the hotel was in Great Gorge, New Jersey. - > - >> > > - > - >> > >> 4. Something no one has mentioned is the population of Shelby= =20 - > owners - > - >>in - > - >> > >> the reasonable vicinity of the convention. Some areas of the= =20 - > Country - > - >>just - > - >> > >> do not have enough Shelbys to make it worthwhile to have a - > - >> > >> convention - > - >> > >> near them. - > - >> > > - > - >> > > Kopec occasionally has a "Regional Rep Rountable" at the SAAC'= s.=20 - > At - > - >>one - > - >>of - > - >> > > the early ones he discussed how they chose convention sites. H= e=20 - > said - > - >>the - > - >> > > first thing they looked at was a map of members. Where they ha= d=20 - > high - > - >> > > densities of memebers, and especially active members, you know= =20 - > the - > - >>ones - > - >> > > that were willing to do much of the work; those were possible - > - >>convention - > - >> > > sites. At a later convention Rep meeting he said that had beco= me=20 - > less - > - >> > > important since most of the poeple comming to conventions were - > - >> > > flying, - > - >> > > leaving their cars home. - > - >> > > - > - >> > >> 5. I wonder as the value of Shelbys goes up, if the desire to= =20 - > drive - > - >>them - > - >> > >> long distances will diminsh for fear of accidents, breakdowns= =20 - > etc. - > - >>and - > - >> > >> not everyone wants or is able to trailer their prize across= =20 - > Country. - > - >> > > - > - >> > > It has had a huge effect at the open track part of the event.= =20 - > Fewer - > - >> > > vintage Shelbys out on the track, etc. and more late model=20 - > Mustangs, - > - >>etc. - > - >> > > That is just how it is going to be. That is ok, in fact I thin= k=20 - > it is - > - >> > > helathy, as long as we have some Shleby owners still out on th= e - > - >> > > track. - > - >> > > - > - >> > > Calvin - > - >> > > http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcalvin767 - > - >> > > - > - >> > - > - >> > - > - >> > - > - >> > - > - >> - > - >> - > - > - > - > _________________________________________________________________ - > - > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it'= s=20 - > FREE! - > - > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ - > - > - > - > - > - - > - - > - - > - - > - ________________________________________ - > - PeoplePC Online - > - A better way to Internet - > - http://www.peoplepc.com - > - - > - - > - > - >=20 -=20 -=20 -=20 ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com
