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Need some help on 6S1235

Discussion in '1965-1970 Shelby Mustang GT350 & GT500' started by weikelrk, Jun 30, 2010.

  1. weikelrk

    weikelrk Member

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    Recently completed a 5 year resto on 6S1235. Engine is stock rebuild, with only departure from stock hipo being melling blueprinted oil pump, Comp cams stock replacement valve springs, and Pertronix Ignitor I. Had issues with my rebuilt 715 Holley so following advice of several posters sent it to Daytona Parts Co. for full restoration. Have put about 200 miles on car since completion and has been running beautifully, up until a couple of days ago. Every time it starts black sooty exhaust for the first few minutes. I have read all the posts on Holley Lemans running rich and checked a few things however the car was performing really well. Took it out Sunday for a 4 or 5 mile jaunt and ran it up through the gears to about 5K RPM and turned around to go home and noticed it seemed to be loading up and not quite right, it stalled pulling in to my driveway briefly. Well last night I pulled the plugs (Autolite 34/BF32's) and the first plug was pitch black and sooty as were 6 others, however #3 cylinder and #8 were light tan/brown. Decided to try some hotter plugs and installed new platinum tipped 45's gapped at .040. Timing was set at 8deg advanced at 600 rpm, idle screws out about 1 turn. Took it out for a spin and it had bad hesitation on initial acceleration. Piddled with timing (couple degrees more advance, changed idle speed, messed with idle mixture screws all to no avail). Pulled new plugs same as old plugs 6 sooty, 2 kind of white. Cleaned and regapped some old 45's to .035 and installed set advance back where it was and idle screws out 1 turn, still the same. Valve lash was set cold on engine stand at .019, am running Rotella T 15/40. Think it could be a vacuum leak somewhere? Any help would be appreciated, Thx Kerry

    Here's picture of car [​IMG]
     
  2. steveshelbymustang

    steveshelbymustang Well-Known Member

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    Ha.Maybe it s about time to junk the car... with all that aggravation..You can junk it in my driveway if you like... Ha ha just kidding... Sounds like a inlet valve sticking open overflowing the gas to the intake flooding the plugs. Just a thought... Usually its the simple things that cause a nightmare. To check if its the front or back bowl you can plug the line to the secondaries and just run it on the primaries to check th front bowl.if it floods this way its the primary side that needs attention... BTW Nice car!!!
     
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  3. hokiesnake

    hokiesnake Member

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    Had the same thing on my SCJ Mach 1. Turned out to be the secondary needle valve. I removed the valve, cleaned it, reinstalled it, and set the float. Its back to running great now.
     
  4. weikelrk

    weikelrk Member

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    Thanks for the advice, I'm going to check vacuum tonight, and will probably pull carb and check float height and needle valves. Puzzling thing is #3 and #8 look normal. Will probably check valve lash now that I have a few miles on it.
     
  5. rsimkins

    rsimkins Well-Known Member

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    weikelrk,

    Something to consider. When using the stock intake manifold, cylinders # 3 and 8 are fed by the same plane (upper) and are in back of the carburetor. # 2 and # 5 are also on the same plane but are in front of the the carb.

    http://mustangtek.com/Intake/S2MS-9424-A_oeco.html
     
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  6. weikelrk

    weikelrk Member

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    Interesting observation, hadn't considered...Thx
     
  7. s2ms

    s2ms Well-Known Member

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    A few more things to consider....

    - Bad (leaking) float

    - Blown power valve

    - Doubt this is the problem but I had a Pertronix fail on me and cause all kinds of problems. Went back to points, they work!

    Nice looking car!
     
  8. OVERRIDE

    OVERRIDE Well-Known Member

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    Look at the air vent tubes that stick up at the air horn. Make sure your air cleaner lid is not to close to them that can make it run rich. Make sure you are using the round air horn spacer and air cleaner is not to short. Also the 715 cfm carbs blow out the power valve easy to.
     
  9. weikelrk

    weikelrk Member

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    Thanks for the advice and compliments. Here's the latest in the ongoing saga, put the vacuum gauge on the port on the carb metering block and had zero vacuum at idle, realized this was a metered port, capped it and pulled the pcv hose off back of manifold and took vacuum reading. Found this animated vacuum page which is kind of neat, and I got exactly the result shown in scenario 3. http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,3020.0.html Also found that the pcv hose even though clamped appeared to be loose enough to create a vacuum leak. rsimkins was on to something as that pcv connection is into the runner that feeds #3 and #8 so it was leaning the mixture enough to give me light brown on the plugs after fixing that I can proudly proclaim that now all 8 plugs are sooty. Pulled #1 spark plug lead put in a BF32 plug turned off lights and observed spark which appeared weak yellow. Installed my spare Pertronix flamethrower coil in place of taiwanese junk yellow top and observed bright blue spark. Still running rich but called it a night. Pretty sure somethings not right in the carb, probably a blown power valve or needle and seat or float. I'll update tomorrow. Thx
     
  10. BillH

    BillH Well-Known Member

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    Here's how I would approach this:
    With the engine idling, look at the booster venturis. Is gas dripping out of them? If the answer is yes, most likely you have either a leaking needle and seat or a float level that is too high. While you are looking around, check that the accelerator pump discharge nozzle is not leaking. (This almost never happens, but it’s good to check)
    Screw the idle needles all the way in. If the engine dies, they are doing what they should, controlling all the fuel that is going into the engine. If the engine continues to run, or even idles better, you probably have an internal fuel leak. First thing to do is to check the bowl screws. The factory spec is 40 to 55 INCH lbs. If you have to pull the bowls, be sure to put it back together with a set of the Holley blue gaskets. Power valves get a bad rap, but seldom are the problem. Use a 1” Box end wrench but don’t over tighten.
    I have fixed a lot of problems by doing the basic things before tearing into the carb.
    Car looks great. Is this an automatic trans car?

    Good Luck.
     
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  11. weikelrk

    weikelrk Member

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    And now, for the rest of the story. Came home from work armed with 2 new power valves, non-stick bowl gaskets and needle and seats. Removed carb opened primary side first and instantly found the problem. Drivers side jet was laying in the bottom of the float bowl under the float, passenger side was finger tight. Checked secondaries and they were good and tight, very glad it was something simple though a little disappointed in rebuilder. Thx, to all who responded. Regards, Kerry
     
  12. weikelrk

    weikelrk Member

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    BillH....didn't see that you had posted prior to my last installment, thx for responding. The car was originally a white Hertz with an automatic and autolite carb. I bought the car when I was 24 (36 years ago) so that explains what happened next. Fuel pump went out went to auto parts store got the $9.95 fuel pump and left a Carter button top (Who new?). Next ditched the auto and replaced with a top-loader. Saw a Holley Lemans for sale in The Marque and bought it... has been on the car ever since. Somewhere in south Texas is an original Autolite carb and HiPo C4, I had stored spare parts in barn and somebody made off with them. Somewhere I have pictures of when it was "just a car". Wife drove it to work for a couple of years in the late 70's. My dad stored it for me at his place until I retired (semi-retired).
     
  13. zrayr

    zrayr Well-Known Member

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    I would advance the timing to 12 degrees.

    & glad your carb problem was easy to correct.

    Z.
     
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  14. weikelrk

    weikelrk Member

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  15. BillH

    BillH Well-Known Member

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  16. BillH

    BillH Well-Known Member

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    Don't feel too bad, you are not alone. In 1969 I bought a 67 Ford Fairlane 500 XL 410 H.P. 427. It was my first Ford purchase, I bought it only because after driving it I knew there wasn't a Chevrolet anywhere in the area that would touch it for power. I was right; the car was an absolute animal. Owned it for 4 years, sold it in '73 (marriage, kids etc). Found it again in 75, was in process of buying it back when the guy totaled it and it went to the crusher. Found out a few years ago that Ford only made 8 of these cars! Makes me sick everytime I think about it.
     

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