would you put those pictures up on your site if you were RA. I think not. Other than some over zealous competitors in that group, the weekend was a success. In the words of Dale Earnhardt and Richard Petty (Thats Racing!!) If you are going to race there are going to be accidents, This one just happened to be a bad one. Ive also seen worse chain reaction accidents on Interstate 43. As for the run what you brung cheater motors which seem to be prevalent in all but some Vintage race scenarios. These guys are only running a few seconds quicker than they did in 1965 with all that HP and 40 years of technology. This is still an amateur deal and to spend the kind of time and effort to check engine displacement and cheater parts, only a very few racing venues want to deal with it. Well see what RA has to say about this for future events >From: "Chris Tann (chris@christann.com)" <ctann@pacbell.net> >Reply-To: chris@christann.com >To: Shelby List <shelbymustang@carmemories.com> >Subject: RE: Vintage Racing >Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:52:21 -0700 (PDT) > >Hi all, > >I just _loved_ the comment at this website: > >http://www.roadamerica.com/2005/index.htm > > > BRIC Weekend Huge Success > > Thanks fans and participants for making this BRIC weekend a great > > celebration of our 50th year. This weekend had it ALL > >As far as I could see, their website has no mention of the pile-up, >nor are there any images. OK, I guess they want to keep attention >focused away from this sort of thing, but _some_ mention, surely! > >I would _never_ enter my Shelby in a race. Solo II is about as far as >I would take it. I do love the idea of these cars actually performing >(I'm not a big lover of prissy show-cars that never even touch the street, >let alone the track), but if you are going to *race* (as opposed to >open track), then you have got to be prepared for the consequences... > >Chris. > >--- Tom Kubler <tjinsa@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > Not to speak for Calvin, but The issue with vintage racing cars is not > > the horsepower, but the engine displacement. WIth the dozen, perhaps > > even dozenS of vintage racing sanctioning bodies not all monitor or > > require period correctness in the cars. Classes that are supposed to be > > restricted to 310c.i. may have stroker motors (isn't that what you're > > planning?) of 427 c.i. I went to a Vinatge race in Wichata KS a few > > years back and the Chevy boys from there were all dry sump at minimum. > > Their rational was "safety". My old roomie restored his Shelby-built > > coupe 100% accurate and was lapped soon after the start. This incident, > > along with a couple of others from earlier in the summer have garnered > > tremendous discussion in the Vintage Racing folks, and the factors > > contibuting to this fiasco range from specific to how things are run in > > general. Fist fights apparently broke out as these guys got out of > > their cars-- sounds ego driven to me... ; how well the pack was grouped; > > how well > > can all the drivers see flags; pace speeds; yada, yada, yada. One > > thing was said I thought was not only cute, but applicable (to the gist > > of), "If the guys want to come out and drive competitively, agressively, > > send them back to SCCA (or similar) to get it out of their system... > > black flag them... ban them for ..." Vinatge races are about bringing > > the old cars out and enjoying them for what they are and were. Trying > > to skin the latest and fastest technology with 40 year-old skin isn't > > vintage racing. There are sanctioning bodies that have that in mind in > > their structure. Mentality and metal from there cannot, or should not, > > be mixed with period cars run in exhibition. Stewards have a difficult > > line to toe in accomplishing that. Not long ago you couldn't get enough > > of the same type cars to round out a grid and "allowances" were > > accepted; now they're turning away some more correct cars for some of > > known presence. Some would call "known presence" as good-ol-boy > > connections. I > > think if you're racing with a group that does NOT aggressively control > > group specifications, or driver aggreesiveness on the track, you're > > likely going to experience a disaster at some point. With some of these > > events, there's not enough time on the track for officials to isolate > > at-risk individuals-- unfortunate. The buddy with the museum piece on > > wheels has made a number of updates, but he's not trying to rewrite > > history. SCCA and other state-of-the-art organizations run a tight > > ship. Regularly-scheduled races, drivers with regular experiece in > > narrowly-defined performance envelope-- tough to duplicate vintagewise. > > > > The story of these cars has been written. Building a killer car that > > kicks ass this year, or even the next two or three will not add your > > name or the car's notariaty to the history books. Larry Dent from the > > Pacific Northwest (Chief Steward for the SOVREN North West Historics in > > Seattle) simply put it, "(These events) are about the cars...The cars > > are the stars ...urge those with the super egos and bump and nerf > > mentality to go elsewhere where they can play in that venue." > > > > Jeeze, I just wrote another War and Peace reply... > > > > Best Regards to all, > > > > Tom Kubler > > > > > > jonlee@wt.net wrote: > > > > Calvin > > > > Hum.... I didnt know HP could be cheating because Im new to this vintage > > racing stuff but I was always under the assumption that the car had to > > be stock and that it was "normal" to have BIG HP with > > stroker motors or stuff that people could not see from looking at the > > motor. (IM saying this because I had serious plans to convert my HI PO > > into a stroker - Im so used to 450+ HP from my 67-500s) My > > belief is that it was a test of driving skills and power more than just > > brute power, but from listening to this conversation, it seems that its > > brute power that is the culprit for advantages and big > > accidents. Is that right? > > > > > > jon > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoting Calvin Sanders : > > > > - On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, VanderHeide, Richard wrote: > > - > > - > I agree; I think there needs to be closer monitoring of HP and > > engine > > - >displacement and if people are cheating, they should not be invited > > back > > - >to a vintage event. Tell me that a 66 Shelby that is stock can pass > > - >another car at 150 mph on the straight at MIS > > - > > - A friend that runs a GT350 clone, says his engine is 450+- hp. You > > know > > - the Shelby factory R models had about 350 or so HP. That is a pretty > > - significant differance through the same drive train, etc. > > - > > - I don't know what the class is called, but the HSR racers have a Late > > - Model Stock Car class of some sort that is basically similiar cars to > > a > > - typical short track. Their rules include them running a dyno at the > > track > > - and checking all the cars every weekend. If somehow the Shelby's were > > - limited in HP to something along the range they had back in the '60's > > (and > > - of course something similiar for all the other cars), does anyone > > think > > - the racing would be any less interesting to watch??? I bet it would > > save > > - huge amounts for the competitors, increasing safety, etc. > > - > > - Calvin > > - http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcalvin767 > > - > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Jim & all: Rather than "accidents", I'd say it was pre-meditated stupidity that caused this regrettable pile-up. IMHO, supercharged egos, rather than the cars, cause most of these "accidents". The cars are just like firearms...they don't kill people, people kill people. Rather than becoming famous, this guy will become "that a--hole who caused the pile-up at Road America back in 2005." Regards, Stan ----- Original Message ----- From: "James G Cowles" <shelbyparts@msn.com> To: <chris@christann.com>; <shelbymustang@carmemories.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 5:24 PM Subject: RE: Vintage Racing > would you put those pictures up on your site if you were RA. I think not. > Other than some over zealous competitors in that group, the weekend was a > success. In the words of Dale Earnhardt and Richard Petty (Thats Racing!!) > If you are going to race there are going to be accidents, This one just > happened to be a bad one. Ive also seen worse chain reaction accidents on > Interstate 43. > As for the run what you brung cheater motors which seem to be prevalent in > all but some Vintage race scenarios. These guys are only running a few > seconds quicker than they did in 1965 with all that HP and 40 years of > technology. This is still an amateur deal and to spend the kind of time and > effort to check engine displacement and cheater parts, only a very few > racing venues want to deal with it. Well see what RA has to say about this > for future events > > >From: "Chris Tann (chris@christann.com)" <ctann@pacbell.net> > >Reply-To: chris@christann.com > >To: Shelby List <shelbymustang@carmemories.com> > >Subject: RE: Vintage Racing > >Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:52:21 -0700 (PDT) > > > >Hi all, > > > >I just _loved_ the comment at this website: > > > >http://www.roadamerica.com/2005/index.htm > > > > > BRIC Weekend Huge Success > > > Thanks fans and participants for making this BRIC weekend a great > > > celebration of our 50th year. This weekend had it ALL > > > >As far as I could see, their website has no mention of the pile-up, > >nor are there any images. OK, I guess they want to keep attention > >focused away from this sort of thing, but _some_ mention, surely! > > > >I would _never_ enter my Shelby in a race. Solo II is about as far as > >I would take it. I do love the idea of these cars actually performing > >(I'm not a big lover of prissy show-cars that never even touch the street, > >let alone the track), but if you are going to *race* (as opposed to > >open track), then you have got to be prepared for the consequences... > > > >Chris. > > > >--- Tom Kubler <tjinsa@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > Not to speak for Calvin, but The issue with vintage racing cars is not > > > the horsepower, but the engine displacement. WIth the dozen, perhaps > > > even dozenS of vintage racing sanctioning bodies not all monitor or > > > require period correctness in the cars. Classes that are supposed to be > > > restricted to 310c.i. may have stroker motors (isn't that what you're > > > planning?) of 427 c.i. I went to a Vinatge race in Wichata KS a few > > > years back and the Chevy boys from there were all dry sump at minimum. > > > Their rational was "safety". My old roomie restored his Shelby-built > > > coupe 100% accurate and was lapped soon after the start. This incident, > > > along with a couple of others from earlier in the summer have garnered > > > tremendous discussion in the Vintage Racing folks, and the factors > > > contibuting to this fiasco range from specific to how things are run in > > > general. Fist fights apparently broke out as these guys got out of > > > their cars-- sounds ego driven to me... ; how well the pack was grouped; > > > how well > > > can all the drivers see flags; pace speeds; yada, yada, yada. One > > > thing was said I thought was not only cute, but applicable (to the gist > > > of), "If the guys want to come out and drive competitively, agressively, > > > send them back to SCCA (or similar) to get it out of their system... > > > black flag them... ban them for ..." Vinatge races are about bringing > > > the old cars out and enjoying them for what they are and were. Trying > > > to skin the latest and fastest technology with 40 year-old skin isn't > > > vintage racing. There are sanctioning bodies that have that in mind in > > > their structure. Mentality and metal from there cannot, or should not, > > > be mixed with period cars run in exhibition. Stewards have a difficult > > > line to toe in accomplishing that. Not long ago you couldn't get enough > > > of the same type cars to round out a grid and "allowances" were > > > accepted; now they're turning away some more correct cars for some of > > > known presence. Some would call "known presence" as good-ol-boy > > > connections. I > > > think if you're racing with a group that does NOT aggressively control > > > group specifications, or driver aggreesiveness on the track, you're > > > likely going to experience a disaster at some point. With some of these > > > events, there's not enough time on the track for officials to isolate > > > at-risk individuals-- unfortunate. The buddy with the museum piece on > > > wheels has made a number of updates, but he's not trying to rewrite > > > history. SCCA and other state-of-the-art organizations run a tight > > > ship. Regularly-scheduled races, drivers with regular experiece in > > > narrowly-defined performance envelope-- tough to duplicate vintagewise. > > > > > > The story of these cars has been written. Building a killer car that > > > kicks ass this year, or even the next two or three will not add your > > > name or the car's notariaty to the history books. Larry Dent from the > > > Pacific Northwest (Chief Steward for the SOVREN North West Historics in > > > Seattle) simply put it, "(These events) are about the cars...The cars > > > are the stars ...urge those with the super egos and bump and nerf > > > mentality to go elsewhere where they can play in that venue." > > > > > > Jeeze, I just wrote another War and Peace reply... > > > > > > Best Regards to all, > > > > > > Tom Kubler > > > > > > > > > jonlee@wt.net wrote: > > > > > > Calvin > > > > > > Hum.... I didnt know HP could be cheating because Im new to this vintage > > > racing stuff but I was always under the assumption that the car had to > > > be stock and that it was "normal" to have BIG HP with > > > stroker motors or stuff that people could not see from looking at the > > > motor. (IM saying this because I had serious plans to convert my HI PO > > > into a stroker - Im so used to 450+ HP from my 67-500s) My > > > belief is that it was a test of driving skills and power more than just > > > brute power, but from listening to this conversation, it seems that its > > > brute power that is the culprit for advantages and big > > > accidents. Is that right? > > > > > > > > > jon > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoting Calvin Sanders : > > > > > > - On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, VanderHeide, Richard wrote: > > > - > > > - > I agree; I think there needs to be closer monitoring of HP and > > > engine > > > - >displacement and if people are cheating, they should not be invited > > > back > > > - >to a vintage event. Tell me that a 66 Shelby that is stock can pass > > > - >another car at 150 mph on the straight at MIS > > > - > > > - A friend that runs a GT350 clone, says his engine is 450+- hp. You > > > know > > > - the Shelby factory R models had about 350 or so HP. That is a pretty > > > - significant differance through the same drive train, etc. > > > - > > > - I don't know what the class is called, but the HSR racers have a Late > > > - Model Stock Car class of some sort that is basically similiar cars to > > > a > > > - typical short track. Their rules include them running a dyno at the > > > track > > > - and checking all the cars every weekend. If somehow the Shelby's were > > > - limited in HP to something along the range they had back in the '60's > > > (and > > > - of course something similiar for all the other cars), does anyone > > > think > > > - the racing would be any less interesting to watch??? I bet it would > > > save > > > - huge amounts for the competitors, increasing safety, etc. > > > - > > > - Calvin > > > - http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcalvin767 > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ >
