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needle and seat assemblies

Discussion in '1965-1970 Shelby Mustang GT350 & GT500' started by woodsnake, Dec 5, 2010.

  1. woodsnake

    woodsnake Member

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    needle and seats
    I have managed to get a few "extra" Shelby style "le mans" bowls. So my question is:
    As the needle and seat assemblies are mounted horizontally, VS vertically for the traditional 'cathedral' bowls, is there any other difference than the direction of action? Can I use the needle and seats in the quick kits, or do I need some piece of unobtanium to rebuild them?
    I called Holley, they said that Carl's was the sole remaining supplier of stuff like that. I sent Carl's an email saying I wanted to buy parts for three pair of bowls, and never heard a word back.
    Is there a difference between the two actual parts, or just the way they actuate?
     
  2. BillH

    BillH Well-Known Member

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    As far as I know, the needle and seat assemblies are unique to the Lemans bowls, nothing else will interchange. As I remember, the needle assemblies were very high flow, around .110 in diameter. The kits offered by Branda are excellent quality, with the exception of Holley, I don’t know about anyone else’s stuff.
    It always amazes me how some business owners will spend $ to put up a web site and then either do not monitor or do not respond to customer inquiries.

    What I would like to find was the Ford tool that let you measure the float level of a Lemans bowl carb with the engine running.
     
  3. zrayr

    zrayr Well-Known Member

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    how did that work?

    Z.
     
  4. OVERRIDE

    OVERRIDE Well-Known Member

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    The Carb kits Branda sells are from Daytona Carburetors . Check out there site at www.daytonaparts.com. They sell the Complete rbulding kit.

    override :thumbsup:
     
  5. BillH

    BillH Well-Known Member

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    I am not really sure, I was told it consisted of one or two bowl screws that were drilled to allow fuel to flow into a small diameter plastic tube that was calibrated to register the level of the fuel in the bowl. I don't know how useful it would really be, adjusting the float level is pretty simple and you still have to pull the bowl to change it.
     
  6. woodsnake

    woodsnake Member

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    Thanks for the link. I sent them an email for pricing on kits, and just the needle and seat assemblies, hopefully I will hear something soon.
     
  7. woodsnake

    woodsnake Member

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    This had better be worth the money, for those pieces of brass. The quick kit has all the other gaskets, the only thing unique are the needle and seats. I guess I'll get one "correct" kit, and see if I can't find a less expensive replacement...

    http://cobranda.com/715cfhhoreki.html
     
  8. BillH

    BillH Well-Known Member

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    At first glance, it looked like that was an awful lot of money to pay for a Holley carb kit until you start pricing our individual gaskets. A set of gaskets for two fuel bowls and metering bodies are $10.86 from Holley. Add a throttle body gasket, ($4.35) and a Power Valve ($9.85) and pretty soon, $85.00 doesn't sound so bad.

    Back in 1981 a master kit from Holley for a 3259 was around $35.00. That's $84.59 in 2010 money.
     
  9. woodsnake

    woodsnake Member

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    I got a price quote from Daytona, 60 dollars for a kit, and 9 dollars each for the needle and seat assemblies.
    That is good news! :thumbup:
    I'm going to order a kit, for comparisson purposes, and a couple of pairs of needle/seat assemblies, just to have them available.
    The regular quick kit has all the gaskets for a 4150 carb, the only thing that makes these a more difficult carb are the N/S assemblies.
     
  10. OVERRIDE

    OVERRIDE Well-Known Member

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    The 4150 kit does not come with the seal that fits over the threads of the screw in plug that covers the nedle and seat.e
     
  11. BillH

    BillH Well-Known Member

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    Most, not all parts for a 4150 interchange. Along with the gaskets that seal the plugs for the needle and seats, you have to be careful with the secondary diaphram. It is different than the ones used on Brand X. The fuel line seals are also not included.
     
  12. s2ms

    s2ms Well-Known Member

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    I bought a complete rebuild kit plus an extra set of needle/seats from Daytona Carbs about 8 years ago. The parts are first rate, I was actually referred to them by Holley tech support. Glad to hear they are still selling that stuff.
     
  13. woodsnake

    woodsnake Member

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    Well, I am currently in Djibouti, Africa, but when I get back to Idaho, I will report back on the parts!
    Thanks again for the tip. With their lower prices, I can continue to snag those bowls on Ebay...
     
  14. keviinpiter

    keviinpiter New Member

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    I really do not know, I was told it by one or two to allow the fuel bowl screws drilled into the small-diameter plastic pipe, is the registered level of the calibration of fuel in the bowl. I do not really know how to use it, adjust the float level is quite simple, you still have to pull the bowl to change it.
     
  15. woodsnake

    woodsnake Member

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    OK, I made it back from Africa, and am now sorting through all the stuff I bought while I was gone, including carbs/parts. I opened up my Daytona kit, and it looks like quality stuff. However, THe new "needle" assemblies are flat, not pointed. WTF?
    I just pulled one of my other bowls apart, and that N/S assy is the typical pointed style.
    Can anyone here explain why they are different?:confused:
     
  16. s2ms

    s2ms Well-Known Member

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    I would contact Daytona and ask them, maybe they messed up when they packaged the kit.

    Don't think I've ever seen a flat needle assemby, can you post a pic?

    I have seen some all metal needles but they were not flat, still had a pointed end with a slightly rounded tip. The needles that came in my Daytona kit are the Viton tipped ones.

    Dave
     
  17. woodsnake

    woodsnake Member

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    The new needle and seat assemblies, and the one needle I just removed from another Lemans bowl that I had. The one I took apart was a secondary, could that be the difference?
     

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  18. s2ms

    s2ms Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for posting the pic, there should be no difference between primary and secondary needles. My kit is packed away at the moment but from what I recall all the needles are exactly like the one you removed. Never seen the flat style before unless it's a "new & improved" design. Definitely worth a call to Daytona parts...
     
  19. woodsnake

    woodsnake Member

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    I will post up again, after I talk to them,(Daytona) and hopefully have a happy ending to this thread. With the naked eye, I can't see any difference between the needle I removed, and a needle from any other Holley assembly I've seen over the years....
     
  20. woodsnake

    woodsnake Member

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    Well, I just got off the phone with Daytona carb parts, and had a very interesting conversation regarding who, how why and what is going on with the carb business.
    The short answer that pertains here, is that the 'flat' tip is a feature, not a flaw, and it actually will perform better than a 'cone' tip, by about twenty percent. :thumbup:
     

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