<HEAD> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV>Synthetic oil is superior to conventional motor oil and has many advantages that have already been spoken about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Price-wise synthetic oil is the most expensive followed by synthetic blend, folowed by conventional motor oil. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not all synthetics are created equal or perform equal. I'm no expert on motor oils nor have I conducted unbias testing so I won't discuss the issue of which is better than the other. A discussion on synthetics would take days and I'm not sure one would know which brand is better than the other brands by the time the discussion was done. Just remember "who" is doing the buying and who is doing the selling when you discuss it, read an article on it or read an oil company's literature about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Once a vehicle is in the customer's hands it, is out of the control of the vehicle manufacturer. It only makes sense that the vehicle manufacturer has to plan for the worst case in their maintence schedules. Not every one is going to use shyIf you went to an oil change place and had your oil changed and asked for synthetic oil to be put in it how would you really know it was not a synthetic blend or conventional motor oil they put in? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, synthetics have additives like conventional motor oils have. Combustion gases get by the piston rings and into the crankcase. These gases mix with the oil and can form harmful substances like sulfuric acid. Needless to say these items are very harmful and not good for your engine's moving surfaces and bearings. There are additives in motor oil that prevent or hold in suspension these harmful substances. Once the build-up of harmful substances overcomes the additives in the oil you've got trouble. Before this happens you change your oil. When should you change your oil depends on how good your rings seal, what the compression ratio is, how well the PVC system works to name a few. The ideal thing to do is to have a sample of your oil tested. This is what the big truck fleets do. It also helps tell them when their engines need rebuilding. But for the average person it is just easier to change your oil at correct regular intervals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you are going to change your motor oil after only 3,000 miles it would seem to me that you would be spending a lot of money to run synthetics. But if it makes you sleep better then please do it. Your oil supplier will be quite happy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jim Seisser<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message----- <BR>From: Ronald Robertson <RONALD.ROBERTSON@SYMPATICO.CA><BR>Sent: Mar 12, 2005 8:48 AM <BR>To: Shelby Mustang <SHELBYMUSTANG@CARMEMORIES.COM><BR>Subject: Oil survey <BR><BR></DIV><ZZZHTML><ZZZHEAD><ZZZMETA content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"><ZZZMETA name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2604"> <STYLE></STYLE> </ZZZHEAD><ZZZBODY bgColor="#ffffff"> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>Have had some really great responses to my request for oil preferences. The theme so far, and we need more responses, is that Castrol/Valvoline is the best non synthetic and that Red Line/Mobil 1 is the best synthetic. But it raises a question in my mind and perhaps the experts can answer it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>"I always understood that the lubricity of the conventional oil is the same as the synthetic. The reason for changing conventional oil so frequently is that the additives break down. The oil can be "reclaimed" by re-refining to remove impurities and replacing the additives."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>So, that generates a couple of questions, assuming my assumptions are correct.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>1. Does synthetic oil have additives and if so, why don't they break down?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>2. If, as some have suggested, you can prolong oil changes with synthetics, why do new car manufacturers threaten that you void warranty unless you change oil - conventional or synthetic at the recommeded intervals. I believe even the synthetic folk recommend sticking to the 6,000 mile recipe.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>So, some would reason, in a conventional vehicle that is not raced, why spend 4 times the money for the same results?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>Ron</FONT></DIV></ZZZBODY></ZZZHTML></BODY><PRE> ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com</PRE>
Jim is on the money and raises good points. I agree on the manufacturers wanting to build in that safety margin for the John Q. Public who thinks "maintenance" is what Viagra is for and has nothing to do with cars. For example, when I worked at a new car dealership, we sold a new Toyota to a customer from waaay up north. As was part of the "experience", the customer was introduced to me (the service manager) and I walked him through the maintenance schedule and our menu pricing. I explained that oil changes should be done every 3k for cheap insurance, and that as much as we'd love his business, he could have simple items like that done at quick lubes or by himself to save the 4 hour drive to our dealership from his home. I further explained that the first real service was the 30k maintenance where all of the fluids and filters were changed, etc. I told him to enjoy his new car and, unless I saw him before, I would see him at that 30k mark. Low and behold, at 30k miles, he came in and said his car needed the 30k service. HE HAD NEVER CHANGED THE OIL. Yes, really. 30k on factory fill , and let's just say there was nothing resembling oil left in the crankcase! Solid grease. Factory oil filter with the tamper seal still on it. And , the car still ran, and ran pretty well considering! I bet there was maybe half a quart of liquid lubricant left. Needless to say, his warranty was done and I did the best thing I could offer, we pulled the valve cover and oil pan, scrubbed them out, used a few rounds of motor flush, dropped in some fresh oil and sent him on his way. I bet Toyota never figured in a 30k interval! Personally, while I may be throwing away money to some degree, I like the perks of synthetic oil here in Wisconsin. At 10 below, cars just don't start well without it. It is better in temperature extremes IMHO, and, in the summer I like knowing that when my oil temp is 210-230 for extended periods that my oil can handle it.I figure if the manufacturers are all sold on it, what can it hurt? I drive my cars reasonably hard , and like the extra security of the synthetics, the slight gains in mpg, and the other benefits- including being able to run a lighter weight with the same protection. For example, a conventional 20/50 oil has about the same VI under load that a good synthetic 10/30 has. Again, from my experience, Red Line is the best, but since it is so expensive I find Mobil 1 is more than good enough for "street" cars. Perhaps my acceptance of synthetics and their cost is the result too many years of racing cars and looking for every little edge , or ?? The only vehicle I use conventional oil in is my diesel truck , as GM specifies only conventional 15/40 diesel oil for it. Since it holds damn near 15 qts., and has a big oil cooler, I have no concerns on overheating the oil. Again, just my $.02 and my observations... I am in no way an expert on lubricants, and I don't play one on TV. Colin ----- Original Message ----- From: ecj To: Shelby Mustang Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 2:51 PM Subject: Re: Oil survey Synthetic oil is superior to conventional motor oil and has many advantages that have already been spoken about. Price-wise synthetic oil is the most expensive followed by synthetic blend, folowed by conventional motor oil. Not all synthetics are created equal or perform equal. I'm no expert on motor oils nor have I conducted unbias testing so I won't discuss the issue of which is better than the other. A discussion on synthetics would take days and I'm not sure one would know which brand is better than the other brands by the time the discussion was done. Just remember "who" is doing the buying and who is doing the selling when you discuss it, read an article on it or read an oil company's literature about it. Once a vehicle is in the customer's hands it, is out of the control of the vehicle manufacturer. It only makes sense that the vehicle manufacturer has to plan for the worst case in their maintence schedules. Not every one is going to use shyIf you went to an oil change place and had your oil changed and asked for synthetic oil to be put in it how would you really know it was not a synthetic blend or conventional motor oil they put in? Yes, synthetics have additives like conventional motor oils have. Combustion gases get by the piston rings and into the crankcase. These gases mix with the oil and can form harmful substances like sulfuric acid. Needless to say these items are very harmful and not good for your engine's moving surfaces and bearings. There are additives in motor oil that prevent or hold in suspension these harmful substances. Once the build-up of harmful substances overcomes the additives in the oil you've got trouble. Before this happens you change your oil. When should you change your oil depends on how good your rings seal, what the compression ratio is, how well the PVC system works to name a few. The ideal thing to do is to have a sample of your oil tested. This is what the big truck fleets do. It also helps tell them when their engines need rebuilding. But for the average person it is just easier to change your oil at correct regular interval! s. If you are going to change your motor oil after only 3,000 miles it would seem to me that you would be spending a lot of money to run synthetics. But if it makes you sleep better then please do it. Your oil supplier will be quite happy. Jim Seisser -----Original Message----- From: Ronald Robertson Sent: Mar 12, 2005 8:48 AM To: Shelby Mustang Subject: Oil survey Have had some really great responses to my request for oil preferences. The theme so far, and we need more responses, is that Castrol/Valvoline is the best non synthetic and that Red Line/Mobil 1 is the best synthetic. But it raises a question in my mind and perhaps the experts can answer it. "I always understood that the lubricity of the conventional oil is the same as the synthetic. The reason for changing conventional oil so frequently is that the additives break down. The oil can be "reclaimed" by re-refining to remove impurities and replacing the additives." So, that generates a couple of questions, assuming my assumptions are correct. 1. Does synthetic oil have additives and if so, why don't they break down? 2. If, as some have suggested, you can prolong oil changes with synthetics, why do new car manufacturers threaten that you void warranty unless you change oil - conventional or synthetic at the recommeded intervals. I believe even the synthetic folk recommend sticking to the 6,000 mile recipe. So, some would reason, in a conventional vehicle that is not raced, why spend 4 times the money for the same results? Ron ________________________________________ PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com
