What I'll suggest is the primary cause for this accident is a variation of one of the first *rules* I figured out when I became a CPA--- general rule: "Being rich don't make you smart." variation: "Being rich don't make you a (competent, responsible or safe) race car driver." And, until all the vintage racing folks who ARE competent, responsible & safe decide to publicly acknowledge--AND enforce rules dealing with--this variation of the general rule, there'll be both lives and vintage race cars at needless risk. But hey...what do I know? I'm naive enough to believe that "vintage" racing is primarily to provide an opportunity for everyone who cares about them to enjoy seeing these pieces of racing history displayed "at speed".... In a message dated 7/18/2005 11:50:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, colin@colinsclassicauto.com writes: > Seriously, it was a terrible wreck, the worst I have ever seen. As a > participant and Group 6 driver in this race, I can only say that it is very > sad that we lost so many great cars yesterday in one wreck. However, the > most important thing is that nobody was seriously hurt - some broken bones, > a punctured lung, etc., but we sure expected much worse at the time. The > pictures do not convey how violently and incredibly fast all this happened. > > I will fix my car, as I suspect everybody else will. It is much better than > not being here or burying a friend and/or other driver. Maybe this incident > will wake some people up so we can get back in touch with the fact that > these are VINTAGE events and should be treated as such. We should not have > guys with 700 hp small blocks in cars that can not handle them. This is all > about having fun and being safe. Cutting every scrap of metal out of you car > > that you can to save weight and then putting in the best "cheater" motor you > > can is done to win - it does not better the sport or make it safe.
I agree; I think there needs to be closer monitoring of HP and engine displacement and if people are cheating, they should not be invited back to a vintage event. Tell me that a 66 Shelby that is stock can pass another car at 150 mph on the straight at MIS Rick From: DLen1261@aol.com Sent: Tue 7/19/2005 9:03 AM To: colin@colinsclassicauto.com; shelbymustang@carmemories.com Subject: Re: Vintage Racing What I'll suggest is the primary cause for this accident is a variation of one of the first *rules* I figured out when I became a CPA--- general rule: "Being rich don't make you smart." variation: "Being rich don't make you a (competent, responsible or safe) race car driver." And, until all the vintage racing folks who ARE competent, responsible & safe decide to publicly acknowledge--AND enforce rules dealing with--this variation of the general rule, there'll be both lives and vintage race cars at needless risk. But hey...what do I know? I'm naive enough to believe that "vintage" racing is primarily to provide an opportunity for everyone who cares about them to enjoy seeing these pieces of racing history displayed "at speed".... In a message dated 7/18/2005 11:50:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, colin@colinsclassicauto.com writes: Seriously, it was a terrible wreck, the worst I have ever seen. As a participant and Group 6 driver in this race, I can only say that it is very sad that we lost so many great cars yesterday in one wreck. However, the most important thing is that nobody was seriously hurt - some broken bones, a punctured lung, etc., but we sure expected much worse at the time. The pictures do not convey how violently and incredibly fast all this happened. I will fix my car, as I suspect everybody else will. It is much better than not being here or burying a friend and/or other driver. Maybe this incident will wake some people up so we can get back in touch with the fact that these are VINTAGE events and should be treated as such. We should not have guys with 700 hp small blocks in cars that can not handle them. This is all about having fun and being safe. Cutting every scrap of metal out of you car that you can to save weight and then putting in the best "cheater" motor you can is done to win - it does not better the sport or make it safe.
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, VanderHeide, Richard wrote: > I agree; I think there needs to be closer monitoring of HP and engine >displacement and if people are cheating, they should not be invited back >to a vintage event. Tell me that a 66 Shelby that is stock can pass >another car at 150 mph on the straight at MIS A friend that runs a GT350 clone, says his engine is 450+- hp. You know the Shelby factory R models had about 350 or so HP. That is a pretty significant differance through the same drive train, etc. I don't know what the class is called, but the HSR racers have a Late Model Stock Car class of some sort that is basically similiar cars to a typical short track. Their rules include them running a dyno at the track and checking all the cars every weekend. If somehow the Shelby's were limited in HP to something along the range they had back in the '60's (and of course something similiar for all the other cars), does anyone think the racing would be any less interesting to watch??? I bet it would save huge amounts for the competitors, increasing safety, etc. Calvin http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcalvin767
Calvin Hum.... I didnt know HP could be cheating because Im new to this vintage racing stuff but I was always under the assumption that the car had to be stock and that it was "normal" to have BIG HP with stroker motors or stuff that people could not see from looking at the motor. (IM saying this because I had serious plans to convert my HI PO into a stroker - Im so used to 450+ HP from my 67-500s) My belief is that it was a test of driving skills and power more than just brute power, but from listening to this conversation, it seems that its brute power that is the culprit for advantages and big accidents. Is that right? jon Quoting Calvin Sanders <calvins@highrpm.net>: - On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, VanderHeide, Richard wrote: - - > I agree; I think there needs to be closer monitoring of HP and engine - >displacement and if people are cheating, they should not be invited back - >to a vintage event. Tell me that a 66 Shelby that is stock can pass - >another car at 150 mph on the straight at MIS - - A friend that runs a GT350 clone, says his engine is 450+- hp. You know - the Shelby factory R models had about 350 or so HP. That is a pretty - significant differance through the same drive train, etc. - - I don't know what the class is called, but the HSR racers have a Late - Model Stock Car class of some sort that is basically similiar cars to a - typical short track. Their rules include them running a dyno at the track - and checking all the cars every weekend. If somehow the Shelby's were - limited in HP to something along the range they had back in the '60's (and - of course something similiar for all the other cars), does anyone think - the racing would be any less interesting to watch??? I bet it would save - huge amounts for the competitors, increasing safety, etc. - - Calvin - http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcalvin767 -
On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 jonlee@wt.net wrote: > > Calvin > > Hum.... I didnt know HP could be cheating because Im new to this vintage >racing stuff but I was always under the assumption that the car had to be >stock and that it was "normal" to have BIG HP with > stroker motors or stuff that people could not see from looking at the >motor. (IM saying this because I had serious plans to convert my HI PO >into a stroker - Im so used to 450+ HP from my 67-500s) My > belief is that it was a test of driving skills and power more than just >brute power, but from listening to this conversation, it seems that its >brute power that is the culprit for advantages and big > accidents. Is that right? Agreed, but in all honesty, many of the cars in vintage racing now are modern well developed racing cars. They are not a re-creation of racing from another era. When the cars have 30% more horsepower than the racing versions back then, it becomes something other than a re-creation. Same with handling, tires, etc. It is just how I feel about it. Others feel differently. I think if you want a modern race car, go race with a group that is not a vintage race group. NASA seems to have a great series where older Mustangs and Camaros can compete with newer pony cars. The rules allow lots of horsepower, modern suspension, etc. Calvin http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcalvin767
HEre is an interesting qoute. If I was there, I would be fist fighting too probably and get yelled at- but thats me so Im sure everyone on this list knows how rude/mean I can get - no offense - its just my personality. I was raised to always stand up for what I believe in and never take shit from no one. Im sure that is why I always got in trouble as a kid - ha Anyway.... here is the qoute jon This was posted as a quote (not by the author) in the BS forum at www.turbomustangs.com. "I was the operating steward for this race. The pace car did what was the right thing to do. We gave them instructions for each group. The two pole guys admitted to running up the hill at 5000 rpm in 3rd gear. The fifth place guy was racing well before the green flag and tryed to force his way between the wall and the car in front of him. He started scraping the wall and the guy behind him checked up and the car that hit him started to spin and then it was one after another into them. I am amazed that no one was killed. All the drivers except two had hans devices. The green flag was in deed thrown. I red flagged the race with in 3 seconds of the green. Even with the red flag the drivers in the back just keep driving into the rear. The red was shown at corner 15 (the walk over bridge). The drivers just did not pay attention. All drivers were forced to attend a meeting right after the incident. They were all yelled at. Interesting that in a few classes they are not allowed to pass until after turn 1 (Historic Gran Prix) and turn 3 for Can Am. One historic Gran Prix driver was banned from their series for life due to an incident in the kink. I have to agree that the drivers in this group are some of the most agressive drivers I have ever seen. More distrubing to me were how many fist fights started after drivers started getting out of there cars. I feel that if they were able to get out they should have been happy they could even move after a incident like this. I was very happy with how all of our crews came together to work in the heat. We had a steady flow of water for all the rescue crews, ambulance crews and wrecker crews while they were working in over 90 degree heat. What a great team. jon Quoting Calvin Sanders <calvins@highrpm.net>: - On Tue, 19 Jul 2005, VanderHeide, Richard wrote: - - > I agree; I think there needs to be closer monitoring of HP and engine - >displacement and if people are cheating, they should not be invited back - >to a vintage event. Tell me that a 66 Shelby that is stock can pass - >another car at 150 mph on the straight at MIS - - A friend that runs a GT350 clone, says his engine is 450+- hp. You know - the Shelby factory R models had about 350 or so HP. That is a pretty - significant differance through the same drive train, etc. - - I don't know what the class is called, but the HSR racers have a Late - Model Stock Car class of some sort that is basically similiar cars to a - typical short track. Their rules include them running a dyno at the track - and checking all the cars every weekend. If somehow the Shelby's were - limited in HP to something along the range they had back in the '60's (and - of course something similiar for all the other cars), does anyone think - the racing would be any less interesting to watch??? I bet it would save - huge amounts for the competitors, increasing safety, etc. - - Calvin - http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcalvin767 -
