Shelby and SAAC at Odds

I don't know how the incredibly accurate tracking of these cars will continue into the future. At some point the original SAAC 'people' will simply be to old and tired to keep up with it all. New blood, on a corporate level like Shelby, is one possible answer. But corporations can be clumsy, prone to mistakes and over time tend to become lax. As the car values increase so will the temptation to counterfit one. I think under a large 'corporation' it will be easier to slip a counterfit in, but what long term choice do we have? I don't know. With just a few key people in place for decades it was ALMOST impossible to counterfit one, but it has been done. As I recall there is at least ONE original AC Cobra that even had SAAC fooled for many years, THAT car had been accepted as 'real', only to find out later it was in fact a copy, a very very good copy.

What to do? Tough call, will we see 'numbers matching' GT350's, years down the road from now? Will Shelby hire and maintain a small group of employees and gaurentee their employment for DECADES to do nothing more than 'track numbers'? Only a matter of time before the 'bean counters' say those employees just aren't justified on a 'corporate' level. Only a matter of time before they 'piss off somebody' and get a pink slip. Think about it...

 

I agree that copys could slip through the cracks of a corporate system.
However, although it will become more temping to do as the cars rise in value(as if there isnt enough upside for the thief already), i think it will become harder to fake them as concentration on these cars will become even more focused.
As for all the personel change in the future, the only answer i can come up with is that maybe the experts over at saac should choose successors......and try to tell them everything they know. Hopefully, by that time, the registry will have it to the point that there is absolutely no question as to the originality of cars.
Best Regards,
Vern

 

Whoa, it just dawned on me, the perfect solution would be for Shelby to hire the SAAC people! Uh oh, duck and cover time.

 

(i heard) They are already starting to........it is a very smart strategy.....furthermore, those who go over to team shelby are making the right choice and arent the traitors that some forums members label them as.
If both sides cant deal with their people having ties with the other side, than i dont think i want anything to do with either. However, after talking to amyb, team shelby doesnt seem to see things that way. I dont know about SaaC as i honestly dont know anyone very high up there very well. But i am sure they should be fine with it. Time will tell if both clubs can truly coexist.
Vern

 

Totally agree - there are more "matching numbers" big block corvettes now than were ever produced, never mind attrition numbers over time...

SAAC is the one that carried the burden over the years - long before the cars were worth more than your house, because it was their passion. What little the founders of SAAC have made on their bussiness pales in comparison with what they have given all of us - investment grade cars - because the lineage could be traced and proven on so many cars.

How much would a big block corvette be worth today if all the fakes were removed from the equation?

Our hobby would not be where it is today without a club like SAAC.

 

Well I tried........but it hurts my Brain to think about Chevys and Vettes.
David.

 

Corporations don't care about history that much

I doubt if a Corporation would have the follow-through over the long run (over several years I mean)
to make sure a register would be updated with neutrality. For intance, I worked for Corvette News (on assignment from Campbell Ewald) on a story on collector Corvettes and I had no data to go on so just wrote a story on a famous collector, including showing a '53 Corvette with a supercharger. There wasn't time or inclnation (on the part of my employer) to track down if that car was supercharged at the factory level, so we showed it without taking a stand on if it was original.

Corporations do not ordinarily waste time (to them it is a waste) accumulating historical data that does not improve their bottom line in the near future. The ad agency I worked for wouldn't have paid for me to build a huge data base on what was original with Corvettes, though we had the continuing assignment of providing stories for a Corvette magazine.

So the solution is for Team Shelby to put a true world aknowledged expert on the payroll or on a retainer as a consultant to 'vet" stories they publish on significant Shelbys or to "vet" the Register each time it is published. Nothing would be worse for the value of pre-1970 Cobras and Shelbys than to have a lot of stories published that hype this or that car and later find out the cars were "air cars," cars with stories (shaky origins), etc. I agree that one reason AC Cobras and Shelbys have consistently gone up in value over the last few decades is the diligent
research of people like Ned Scudder, who took it as a point of pride not to
pass on erronous information.

 

Re: Corporations don't care about history that much

So, has SAAC complied with the November 14th cease-and-desist letter?

That's what matters to me.

There was an agreement in place.

SAAC is not in compliance.

Shelby terminated the agreement under the terms of the agreement and Shelby Licensing will not be renewing SAACs license to use Shelby's applicable Intellectual Property and related marks.

Pretty cut and dried -- no gray area there.

Has SAAC complied? Why not?

Imo, all the good work of SAAC in the past has no bearing on the core issue of compliance.

---

btw, corporations don't die as individuals are prone to do <lol>, so having Shelby records managed by a Shelby corporate entity (or subsidiary organization as they see fit) potentially preserves them in a way no individual possibly can.

Of course, it will be difficult for Shelby to find folks as dedicated to their work as SAAC has been, but it's certainly doable and Shelby's legal right to do so -- and that's apparently what they've chosen to do, and I have no problem with that.

Has SSAC complied? Do they plan to? (I certainly hope so!) These are questions that matter to me because, until resolved, Shelby assets are exposed and the Clubs are exposed.

I have no direct affiliation with Shelby or any of his businesses, but it does irk me to see the SAAC letter spin the issues into areas that matter not (hot attick, one light bulb <lol>). The legal issue is compliance. Period.

Issues relative to future record-keeping, concerns on existing car-related issues and who/how Team Shelby will deal with all that is certainly fair game and should be addressed to and by them as the compliance issue gets resolved.

Just my .02

 

Alright, i have admitted many times on this forum and posted a personal apology saying that i was a little...shall we say FORWARD in my first posts over this matter. HOwever, when have i ever flip flopped by stance? I went from being on saac's side completely to being completely nuetral as i dont believe that this subject is my place to submit forward opinions. Really, i did about a half flip.......but there was certainly no flop! If i have given anybody the impression that i have changed my stance, or flip flopped, than im sorry!

As for people going to work for team shelby, team shelby is starting to draft saac's people from what i hear......
And, SAAC takes such an agressive position on this matter thta some saac members feel that these people are betraying their cause.

Furthermore, communication with the common enthusiast/customer is the key to running a successful brand and i am appreciative with amy's connection to the common enthusiast like me.

As for guns or knives....i dont really favor either....id rather just move on and let events play themselves out but you, saac, and teamshelby can have at it with your weapons of choice....i think ill just make some popcorn, sit back, and stay out of the fire.

Vern

 

WHO are the People (as asked before)?

My Opinion is: If you cant give a "Name/Names", "Place", "Dates" or "The Facts", then it is just a Rumor.........Please keep the Rumors to your self until it is no longer a Rumor. That is how a lot of crap gets stirred up. Thanks.
David.

 

Re: Corporations don't care about history that much

I would be concerned about abuses if a corporation had the records. There could be all kinds of continuation cars added, as an example. This is certainly not a cut and dry situation. A good example of this is that Shelby's records were pretty sparse and only for 1965 and 1966. There was nothing for 1967-1970. The bulk of the records are from other sources and not Shelby's property. That would create 2 record keepers. You put this together with Kopec's statement that Shelby gave SAAC the records and it is not an easy thing to resolve.
Dave

 

So...tell us more.
Why is this compliance issue of major concern to you...at this point in time?

 

Flip Flops? Why thanks for asking, I wear them everyday, even in the winter!

Man I've flip flopped on this issue a bunch of times since it first came to light. Adamantly supporting Shelby, growing concerned, adamantly supporting SAAC. If you 'attack' EITHER party I will likely come to their defense.

This is a very emotional and tough issue to make a black and white call on. I strive to find some middle ground, but at times find the backend pointed where the front end used to be as I slide out of control. Thats my take on 'spin'.

 

Vern
I have been following this quite closely and have not heard of any conversions by anyone. The issues are about Shelby trying to hurt SAAC, which could hurt SAAC's members and the car's values by putting the car's integredy in question should there be changes. The record keepers feel an obligation to keep things pure so keeping things as they have been in the past is the preferred choice. There really should be 2 clubs, one for the 60's cars and one for the late model cars.
I think we all like both the old and new. If Shelby stopped his negative action towards his 30 plus year fan club, we could all be on the same page and enjoy both the 60's cars and late models without the division created by his efforts to put everything under his roof. What he is doing is not a positive for anyone, including Shelby.
Dave

 

Sometimes it is not proper to be dropping names at any chance when you see fit!
Furthermore, david, if you read post 230 i specifically said that this is what i heard......hence what i am saying is not fact and should not be taken as such. Also, it isnt a rumor as i never tried to convice others that it is true. i simply stated what i have heard and let other take it with a grain of salt. I edited my original post befor that as i realized that i had not worded it right.
That is my opinion.
Vern

 

Dave,
Why do you feel that the values of these cars are at risk. That is truly the most ridiculous arguement ive heard on this thread. These cars are rock solid. The existence of two clubs could never hurt that.
Also, why are most people so quick to jump on SAACs side....i made the same mistake and then i realized that there must be a reason why shelby is so mad right now. I think that we should just let things play out as unless you are on the very inside of either club....you arent going to know what is really going on until it happens.
Vern

 

There are not too many people closer to the action than GT350DAVE. Personally, I would go with more of what he says than rely on rumor or speculation. The truth of the matter is that, over time, this will eventually work out one way or the other or somewhere in between.
Jon

 

Oh......and one more thing.....go back and actually read my post and you will find that i never actually claimed that any of the saac people were going over to teamshelby. I said that teamshelby is trying to get saacs people to help them.

I dont mean to have and argumenitive tone in these post but i guess on this forum you have to be foward in order to get your point through to others.
Best REgards,
Vern

 

OK......exactly..thats kinda what ive been trying to say.
Best Regards,
Vern