Shelby and SAAC at Odds

Presented 2 early Shelbys to choose from, you would make no distinction from the one with San Jose Kcodes that matchec SAAC records (a clue) as opposed to one with Ccodes

Now I realize that more goes into looking at a car than just verifying numbers but I see no reason to skip over that step.

 

"With regards to the serial number thing.. Basing anything on the coincidence of these two numbers being kept together for 40 years is silly" <El Jimb0>

That's where you are dead wrong. SAAC has kept that information intact for all these years. The Ford & Shelby #'s were written in ledgers and I have held the 65 Ledger in my own hands, under the watchful eye of Rick K. In very neat penmanship (a womans, if I was to guess) the Ford # and its corresponding Shelby #, along with other pertinent details are on individual lines, recorded when the cars were produced. It is a real, historical set of documents, not some flight of fancy.
Sure, there are plenty of guys who can tell what is and what is not legit, Jeff is among the best. If you are going to call your car a Shelby, you have to start somewhere - the #'s matter. The original parts matter. A cars provenance matters.

Mike

 

The Marque begins with the "numbers" and a lot of other things come along with those numbers. Being called a Cobra or a Shelby means that it was produced by Shelby American, Inc. A very important aspect in establishing
legitimacy as well as the recording of each car's history. The result of the
forementioned items results in the pedigree. And that results in value.

Seems to be a difficult premise for some people to accept. But most of us seem to get it.

SAAC has worked hard and long to keep the stringent standards in place that have kept the Marque protected and the result speaks for itself. Some of the
most popular cars ever and the rather high values they command.
shlby66

 

Maybe we as club members can have more control over the future of these clubs based on our attendance to events. If no '63-'70 Shelbys and Cobras show up to Team Shelby's events they might have second thoughts of the dismissal of SAAC. Or SAAC limited their event to pre '70 model Ford powered vehicles only. This wouldn't be good for either club, be necessary at the beginning to reach a true teamship between the clubs. Dued to limited vacation or family time commitments it could be difficult for enthusiast to attend 2 National Events (depending on location) per year. But, lets face it other than the cars names we as owners of the early Shelby American cars have more in common with vintage Camaros, Cudas, Javelins, Vettes, Jags and Ferraris No computer managed engines and airbagged steering wheels.

RussT

 

First, SAAC is not a Club. Has not been one since 1987, when it became a private business. We are really not club members as such; rather one could
say we are subscribers, much like a magazine subscription.

Secondly, I doubt if SAAC is all that interested in all of the wildly speculative
verbage that has been bantered back and forth on these pages and others.
Their silence says the have more important things to do: working on the
registery, planning for SAAC -33 and other tasks they deem important.

Thirdly, I assume SAAC will contine on as before; business as usual, regardless of new entrants ( read: Team Shelby or others ) that appear
on the scene. Remember, Americans love choices; the more the merrier.
There are several choices now. So affiliate yourself with the organization of your choice and don't be too concerned about the other ones.
shlby66

 

After reading the press release and letter I'm left with a couple of questions: 1) where do we go from here (should we as individuals contribute to the defense fund), and 2) what impact dose this have on the forum name (will the forum have to desist in using Shelby's name)?

This is serious stuff. I'd thought that the records would not have to be returned, but it seems that they may have to after all. It all depends on who wins in court. The deeper pockets usually wins.

It also now appears that the registry is in jeopardy. So far a lot of hard work has gone into it and I've been planning on getting a copy. I'd hate to see that go to waste. One option might be to put everything (except FoMoCo VINS, those need to be kept under wraps) in the public domain. Not sure if that is possible or even legal with the pending litigation.

 

As an observation I offer the following.

I find it interesting that no one is calling for a boycott of the new club, autographs or Shelby cars and products by anyone. When Ford was sending letters of demands to Mustang shops we saw articles and forum posts everywhere.

Just an observation.

BTW has anyone heard if Shelby will or is going after the Museum also? Makes sense as the next step in the process.

Just a thought.

As for SAAC I haven't always been supportive of all the "leaders" or choices but over all the benefits have always been greater. Returning the "information" would likely mean that the invoices that were found and related information could no longer be used but all the updated owner and history would still belong to SAAC. Hard to say who's info would be of more importance. Understanding of the importance of all the info sure proves, at this point, what Shelby's intent is.

Glad I never spent the $$'s to get someones signature on my car..... would just ahve to get it removed or painted over

 

Roy,
The Registry is not in jeopardy. This is a strong statement that the owners like ourselves who are into the cars built by Shelby American are not going to be pushed aside. Sign up with www.saacforum.com and continue the good you have been doing.
Dave

 

Things really aren't as they appeared. Maybe Amy was deceived. Why else would she have made such a recent public statement?
Dave

 

How about a car with the correct pair of serial numbers which also happens to have no exhaust hanger bolt holes.. and Dearborn engine compartment bolts.. and gold paint under the black paint in the interior. Last seen in Miami,Florida (Rust City, USA) in pieces at a junkyard in 1971. It is now a "rust free barn find" in Utah... who cares ----the numbers match.

Only the truly naive would leave the ford vin behind in a wreck..

Here is another what if;
Suppose you are the nephew of the original owner. Your provenance is intact. You lost the front clip to a drunk driver in 1968.. The body shop fixes it with clip from a 6 cyl. car. Years later this serial number thing pops up and you don't know what that ford vin was because it is long gone. Can you get it from SAAC? Can you BUY it from SAAC? Suppose your story is not as good as that? Does it cost more. I don't know the answer to any of these questions. I am just a little suspicious about what people do when the stakes get really high.. REALLY high.

jimbo

 

Here's one definition of the word club "an association of persons for some common object usually jointly supported and meeting periodically; also : a group identified by some common characteristic". As large as SAAC became theirs no way it could be maintain on a voluntary basis. I'm pretty sure most larger clubs are businesses. Mustang Club of America, Sports Car Club of America, Corvette, Porsche, and other marques have clubs that are business operated. Capitalism is great. Plus we usually end up with better product and sevices(hopefully). Not all clubs are non-profit. And those that are usually change when growth dictates the need for paid help.

RussT

 

RussT,

What shlby66 was referring to was the fact that SAAC started off as a non-profit corporation and along about 1987 became a "for profit" corporation without notifying its members. It all happened rather quietly behind the scenes. As far as paid help, I don't think that the payroll has increased over the last twenty years. Most if not all help is on voluntary basis. I know for a fact that the registrars receive no compensation.

 

Just my OPINION:

I believe that the current desirability and value of the early Shelby vehicles is closely linked to SAAC’s efforts to:
1. Promote these cars and provide safe ways to congregate and enjoy them.
2. Be a clearing house for reliable information about these cars.
3. Keep confidential records that, while possibly not always the final word, at least helps to differentiate authentic cars from fakes.

No organization is perfect, so I’m not going to waste time attempting defend everything SAAC has done. But in my opinion they do much more good than harm. I believe the desirability, fun of ownership, and value of these cars has gone up faster and further than otherwise would have occurred without them. And I believe that their interests as enthusiasts is more closely aligned to mine than would be an organization primarily dedicated to promoting and making money off the current Shelby products.

I’m not knocking the new Team Shelby. On the contrary – I think an organization dedicated primarily to the newer cars is a great idea and I wish them the very best. If I buy one of the newer Shelby cars I will certainly join their club. I just think that the (so far) confidential records concerning my 1966 GT350 would be better off in the hands of SAAC. No one can predict the future, but SAAC has a proven record over many years of serving my interest. With Team Shelby’s focus on the newer Shelby products (and rightly so) I don’t believe they will be as vigilant with or have the same goals for the historic records of the older cars.

And I’m willing to put my money where my mouth is. I just made my contribution to SAAC’s Legal Defense Fund. http://www.saac.com/LDF.htm. I encourage everyone who is of like mind to do the same. SAAC’s dues (or fees if you will) have been low for many years so I don’t feel that a few extra dollars now, to help keep things going in the right direction, is out of line.

There appears to be a big legal battle brewing. If you, like me, feel that you have a “dog in this fight” I suggest you do whatever you believe is right to protect your interests.

I have no argument with anyone who thinks differently, and I applaud & respect all the views expressed here. I just thought I’d throw my opinion into the mix.

Steve

 

I agree with 6S087. I too have joined the new SAAC forum and I also have contributed to the SAAC Defense Fund. SAAC has served the Cobra and
Shelby owners well over the years.
shlby66

 

DITTO

John

 

Dave, I am not sure what you are alluding too, I haven't been deceived, nor have I deceived anyone. I never saw Neil's letter, till I saw it posted today. I did however not chose to air this publically, they did they posted a letter to the members, yet they still have not responded to Carroll or his legal representation personally. And to post a letter calling us or Carroll evil, is out of line. I will not be posting on this further. people are taking sides making decisions. I chose to take the high road.


Amy

 

Amy,
Maybe "deceived" was the wrong word. Maybe "uninformed" would have been a better choice. If I were you however, I would feel somewhat "deceived" by not being kept in it loop if the first time you saw the letter was this morning. SAAC received it 11/14/07 and it's contents certainly effects your business. The letter's contents did not match your earlier posts or Bob's rebuttal. Neil Cumming's letter was very clear and it was time for people to draw their own conclusions rather then continue the he said, she said. I have said before, we could have all worked together very nicely. I was looking forward to it, but Neil's letter, is very clear that that is not in the cards.
Dave

 

Dave, I clearly in the beginning said "I" did not ask for anything from saac. All I knew was the license was not renewed, the letter posted today on saacforums.com was actually a second letter sent by Neil I found out today as well.

Neil is Carroll's lawyer, as his lawyer he has the right per the agreement to ask for stuff back. SAAC will or won't comply, totally their choice, this is a legal matter.

I do however disagree with your final statement, There was no turning back after the first set of calls, emails and letter went unanswered from Carroll and CSL.


Amy