Shelby and SAAC at Odds

I stand corrected. I'm getting senile or something?

 

Here is a copy of what Amy just wrote over at Team Shelby with minor spelling & grammer corrections.....

"Guys a few thoughts.....

First - whether you read the release or not, you can bet that is Carroll speaking. We would never ever do a release like that. (Talking for him)

Secondly - Carroll's issue is with the Saac owners. He respects and is friends with many of the registrars.

Third - We never offered Saac to join team Shelby, John Luft couldn't even get them to respond to emails or calls since April of 07.

Forth - Yes SAI is part if CSL, but I was not copied on legal letters sent by CARROLL attorney, believe it or not.

Lastly, there is an agreement, part of it is referenced in the Luft's letters, take special note to the first note where it is nice and welcoming.

As I have always said, this could have been resolved early on, Saac was not blindsided, they took a bad situation and let it detiorate.


Also this one last point, or not..... There are some ugly things being said , nasty and insulting, the Saac site is focused on this ugly, do not get sucked in, stay above it, I for one will not go there I'd get into those conversations.

Regardless of where you stand in this stooping to that level of vulgar comments is hard to recover from, stay above it , dont get sucked in. Agree or not Carroll is a legend, he deserves respect even basic respect for a man who accomplished all he has, even basic respect that goes with being 85.

Amy

Ps this is all a legal issue now, let's go enjoy the cars "

 

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/071208/clsa003.html?.v=27

Press Release
Source: Carroll Shelby Licensing

Carroll Shelby Licensing Responds to Comments by Ken Eber and Rick Kopec


Saturday December 8, 1:04 am ET
GARDENA, Calif., Dec. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- Carroll Shelby, CEO of Carroll Shelby Licensing Inc., (CSL) has issued a statement in response to allegations made by the owners of the organization formerly known as the Shelby American Automobile Club.

"I wanted to explain my concerns to the members of the Shelby American Automobile Club directly, but couldn't because SAAC has refused to give me a list of its members, even though the licensee agreement with SAAC requires them to allow me access to their books and records. So I am being forced to share the facts through a news release.

Rick Kopec and Ken Eber, two of the individuals who run the for-profit business called SAAC, have said that they don't know why we didn't renew their annual license. That's not true. We've sent e-mails, made phone calls and mailed letters explaining our concerns for quite some time. Except for the message noted at http://www.shelbylicensing.com/press.htm
they went unanswered. (PLEASE CLINK ON THIS LINK & READ BEFORE GOING FARTHER)


For the past several years, I've repeatedly told them that I was unhappy with their disregard of the reporting requirements of their license agreement and the way they managed the club. And, for the past eight years, their business hasn't kept the terms of its extremely favorable agreement with my licensing company, Carroll Shelby Licensing.

Here are the primary reasons that we did not renew the license for this business:
-- For many years, I loaned truckloads of memorabilia to the club and provided 1960s production records for the registry; Kopec and Eber promised that everything would be returned to me whenever I asked. In fact, that's what Kopec admits to on page 11 of the last printed edition of the "Shelby American World Registry," which was published in 1997. But they have refused to do so, and I'm told they have sold many of the items, like cancelled Shelby American checks, over the Internet and the like. This is not what anyone had in mind when I let them borrow my things, or my licensing company granted them a license.

-- Under the terms of their licensing agreement with CSL, they were required to provide annual and quarterly sales reports, as well as certified statements of sales and a full audit. Also, if requested, they were to allow us 'free and full access' to their books, records and accounts. They have not done any of these things, even though I've personally asked them many times.

-- They've never provided proof of the basic liability insurance required by the license agreement. This could expose me personally and all of my companies to enormous liability.

-- They failed for nine years to even ask for, much less receive advance approvals from CSL of the thousands of products and product designs they've been selling under license, even though the license agreement clearly states that this failure is grounds for "immediate" termination.

-- They didn't even pay the $1 per year licensing fee for the past nine years.

-- CSL not only has the right not to renew SAAC's license (which was made for only one year at a time for a reason), but in light of their continued disregard for the license agreement requirements, my trademarks and other intellectual property rights are at great risk if I allow this to continue.


Kopec and Eber say SAAC has 5,000 members who pay almost a quarter-million dollars in dues each year. Then there are advertising revenues, sponsorships and money made at the SAAC national convention. In return, from what I can tell, members receive just one mediocre publication and a couple of classified advertising newsletters.

And where is the Registry that has been promised year after year? The last one was published 10 years ago. I have received many calls from people who have paid hundreds of dollars for a Registry; they have threatened lawsuits against me and my companies because they have not received their book. The basic information in the Registry about colors, how many cars were built, etc., should be regularly updated and available online for instant access by members.

Kopec and Eber recently offered sponsorship of the club to a kit car maker. I have no issue with the individuals who buy kit cars and love the Shelby brand. But, would GM let Chrysler sponsor the Corvette Club? Would Harley Davidson ignore an attempt by Kawasaki to sponsor the Harley Owners Group?
I tried for years to address changes that should be made, but my requests fell on deaf ears. Some of the correspondence concerning this matter can be found at http://www.shelbylicensing.com/ So my licensing company and I asked Eber and Kopec to return the 1960s records and items they originally promised to give back to me, as well as those they have collected over the years using my name under license. And I told them that they can't use my name or the name of my company anymore, and to dispose of their inventory as required by the license agreement.

Now they want club members to give them hard-earned money to defend their business interests. Eber and Kopec are asking people to help sue me when they won't even tell anyone, much less my licensing company, how much money the club has made over the years collecting member dues and selling 'Shelby' memorabilia and merchandise for a royalty fee of only $1.00.

Are they fighting me because they're really afraid for the Registry or do they fear giving us financials, which they've been required to do, but refused?
Shelby enthusiasts, as well as SAAC club members and registrars deserve better. They should have a club that provides good value and benefits everyone who is involved. They deserve a club that leverages technology to share information and runs events that encourage people to enjoy their cars. They deserve to be treated with class and respect. To say that Team Shelby will negatively impact the value of Shelby cars is ridiculous.

I've received probably 250 telephone calls from people asking me to check on whether a particular Cobra or Mustang they wanted to buy is authentic. The next thing I hear from them is that Ken Eber has bought it. Where I come from, when there's that much smoke there's usually some sort of fire!
Also, I've been told many times by members that Ken Eber has said that he doesn't need Carroll Shelby. Well, now he won't have to bother with me and I won't have to bother with him. And, it seems to me that they make enough money that they don't need to go around poor-mouthing to the Club members to finance their legal defense fund against me. Shame on both of them! And, as far as Ken and Rick's associate, Mr. Pardee, the Club members should ask him how much of my personal memorabilia is being stored in his garage that, by all rights, should come back to me. Even though the three of them have slandered me by making public statements that I am 'evil,' I'm still entitled to get my personal belongings back. Who can disagree with that?

The bottom line is my legacy should be left in the hands of my family and real enthusiasts. I want to extend an offer to the local clubs to contact my office and arrange for a license to use the Shelby and Cobra name at the same base cost that we offered SAAC of $1. This will allow them to continue their great work.

It's my right to stop letting someone use my name and the name of my legacy company, Shelby American, when they won't listen to me or keep the terms of the licensing agreement they signed many years ago. Team Shelby won't be run that way. You have my word on it."

About Carroll Shelby Licensing
Automotive manufacturer and entrepreneur Carroll Shelby is one of the most famous and successful high performance visionaries in the world. In 1998, he founded Carroll Shelby Licensing Inc., which is the exclusive holder of trademarks and vehicle design rights for some of the most famous muscle cars and high-performance vehicles. CSL also holds trademark rights for Shelby- branded apparel, accessories and collectibles. For additional information about the company or licensing opportunities, call (310) 914-1843 or visit www.shelbylicensing.com.



Source: Carroll Shelby Licensing

 

I'm with Dominic. My opinion is that I really don't care what information regarding my car is made public EXCEPT for the Ford VIN. That one item MUST remain protected. That is the one item that separates verification of individual cars from outright fraud, at least for he '65, '66, and '67s. These numbers should and must remain in the custody of individual who are passionate about safeguarding this information. The one thing you can say about SAAC is that they believe in keeping this information secret almost to the point of paranoia and only verifying the authenticity of the car in question. I personally know three of the registrars and have communicated with two others. They all share the same passion and philosophy. They need our support in their self appointed task. That makes SAAC the keeper of the flame, so to speak. Let's not let it be extinguished. (A bit corny but that's how I feel.) I'm not taking sides on any of the other issues that are the basis of the current litigation.

 

Roy; I agree 100%.

If SAAC does in fact have any of Shelby's personal items in their possession, they should return them in a timely manner.

The information SAAC gathered and printed regarding car data specific is in my opinion SAAC's. I am an engineer and design buildings. My drawings are my property for use for one structure to the client. The owner cannot take my drawings and sell them. This is what's know as intellectual property.

If Shelby and his staff gathered all the data on the cars, then it is theirs.

I am also and author and have a copyright on my manuscript.

Is the SAAC directory copyright by Shelby Licensing?

intellectual property (IP) is an umbrella term for various legal entitlements which attach to certain names, written and recorded media, and inventions. The holders of these legal entitlements may exercise various exclusive rights in relation to the subject matter of the IP. The adjective "intellectual" reflects the fact that this term concerns a process of the mind. The noun "property" implies that ideation is analogous to the construction of tangible objects. Consequently, this term is controversial.

Intellectual property laws and enforcement vary widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. There are inter-governmental efforts to harmonise them through international treaties such as the 1994 World Trade Organization (WTO) Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPs), while other treaties may facilitate registration in more than one jurisdiction at a time. Disagreements over medical and software patents and the severity of copyright enforcement have so far prevented consensus on a cohesive international system[citation needed].

Michael Mark, BSc EE, P.Eng.

 

Michael,
I agree for the most part. Many words have been written on this subject. I believe that without knowing exactly what the licensing agreement says, it is difficult for any one individual to make a judgment and certainly not take sides. I think that if someone signs an agreement, then he should abide by it, regardless of what it says. I know that when I sign something, I know exactly what I'm getting into.

I too am an engineer and what I develop belongs to me unless it is developed under contract with another entity. Again, without knowing exactly what is in the agreement, it is impossible to pick a side. I just want m Ford VIN protected.

 

Roy:

I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens.

I have a 07 GT500 and a 00R and built a FFR Cobra.

Cars are good.

Too bad about the pending lawsuit.

Michael Mark, BSc EE

 

So it's OK if all the information concerning a particular car is published for all to see, except the vin?
Well that would be real handy for anyone wanting to steal your car. Name, address, maybe even telephone number? License plate number, that should suffice to track down it's exact location! What else should be considered public? How many kids, where they go to school?

Yikes, I wouldn't register my car if that would be the protocal.

 

If you drive your car & park it for just 5 minutes, anyone can walk up & read your vin number thru the windsheild & then write down your plate number ( I know the older shelby's vins are located under the hood & some have a special hidden vin) but my point is most anyone can go to a police station or DMV office say they found a car that's in a field or on their property & get info on any car to track down the owner. Unless your car stays home covered up & never see the light of day, someone can always find out who you are, where you live & personal info using the internet with limited info & a little money called background checks.

 

SAAC isn't a club regardless of what we'd all like to believe. Our membership buys us a subscription to whatever SAAC decides to put out. Subscribers don't vote for a SAAC board or have any say in the direction, or any rights at all wrt SAAC. Our only real voice is to not renewing our subscription.

Lots of entities call their customers "members". Just look at your American Express card. Or any of the business or airline reward programs.

I've stayed a SAAC member all these years, even after the "return on dues" fell off, because I hoped in some vague way it would benefit the volunteer judges and registrars, and keep the VIN records and registry alive.

It's amazing to me that this challenge by CS finally dragged SAAC into the Internet age. Competition and threats are a powerful force.

Oh, and I don't expect Team Shelby to be a club either, but hopefully a better subscription.

 

Interesting to read this in the 97 World Registry. On page 11. quote" Carroll Shelby was extremely generous in allowing the club not only full access to his records, but Kopec was allowed to take anything he felt was of interest. In return, Kopec promised to take care of it and return it to Shelby whenever he requested it... as long as there was time to make photocopies before turning it over."

On page 12, mention of the club striking factory paperwork gold a second time just prior to October 94. Details of where it was found is not stated. Is this the actual factory invoicing for each Shelby car built? Randy

 

Excaliber,

Let me clarify, I was referring to information concerning the car itself not necessarily information about myself (although someone could find that out easily enough if they wanted to). I'm OK with publishing the production information, past history, and the current state of the car. I agree that personal information should not be published (even SAAC respects that aspect).

ColdwaterHotRod,

Well said. However, let me clarify again, I was referring to the FORD VIN for '65, '66, and '67 cars only. I'm also not sure I understand what you mean by "special VIN". Is that the one under the Shelby tag? Could you elaborate? Thanks.

Rob,

I believe you are correct in this. See my previous posts (Nos. 19, 22, 79, and 94) in this thread on this matter.

 

There it is - the answer!

Interesting to read this in the 97 World Registry. On page 11. quote" Carroll Shelby was extremely generous in allowing the club not only full access to his records, but Kopec was allowed to take anything he felt was of interest. In return, Kopec promised to take care of it and return it to Shelby whenever he requested it... as long as there was time to make photocopies before turning it over."

"Gee guys don't we have some more photocopies to make? We can send this stuff back to Carroll as soon as we are done!"

 

I for one am getting tired of reading these posts with all the mud slinging and finger pointing back and forth between SAAC and Shelby, and I'm sure I'm not alone. The bottom line is, SAAC is the recognized authority on the history and documentation of Shelby American automobiles from '62-'70, not the new "Team Shelby" and should remain that way. If SAAC was never formed by Ken and Rick, then Carroll Shelby would just be a distant memory. An old chicken farmer, that built some kick ass cars in the 60's, and would not be the recognized figure he is today, and so the cars would not be worth what they are today either, and that an indisbutable fact!

Kenny

 

This factory paperwork references the 60+ boxes of documents, loaded on a 24’ trailer, from the Ford archives in Detroit. This was acquired by Howard Pardee prior to 1996.

 

I was under the impression that this was in the possesion of Robert Lane and forwarded to SAAC for "safe keeping".

 

If you enter your car in a Car Show, you open the Hood and the Trunk and the windows are usually down. I have photographed many Shelbys at SAAC & MCA Shows to the point I could easily duplicate one down to the smallest detail. Scratches, Dings, Chips, Paint Sags and even Tire Tread Depth. Putting the info on line for Members is no different. Since Team Shelby says "For Members to Access" I will assume that it is only for the Paid Memberships to access by way of putting in your User Name & Pass Word. Just remember this: Locking something away will ONLY keep the Honest people Honest.
David.

 

These documents were from the Ford archives and were given to Howard Pardee by the archivist because they would have otherwise been thrown away. Pardee and David Ebers loaded them in a trailer and drove them to Howard’s garage in Ohio.

Evidently every year the Ford archives go through the documents that have been there for 10 years and review whether they want to keep them another 10 years or trash them.

A guy writing a book on 1940’s Jeeps discovered a pallet of boxes which were mis-identified. They were records from Shelby from 1963-1967. When this was discovered it was decided to toss them out. But instead of doing that she (the archivist) called Howard (whom she happened to remember from his previous visits). She asked him if he wanted them. The terms were that they were not for sale but he could not divulge where and how he got them (because they did not want a mob of others hounding them for discarded documents). He had to pick them up on the loading dock on a certain day.

 

The registrars were invited to Howard's garage where everyone dug into the boxes, literally thousands of pages, and separated it all into stacks by car- Cobras, and various years Shelbys. Anything that had a serial # on it. The registrars took their stacks home, made copies, and eventually returned the originals (most were copies themselves) to Howard.

 

It would seem logical that these Ford documents were not Shelby property. But of course the larger question becomes just what is and what isn't Shelby property.